further adventures of "ironic"

Wed Jun 9 19:33:33 UTC 2010

Very nice find, Garson.

m a m

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:

> In 1996 the song "Ironic" by Alanis Morissette was a number-one hit on
> the Billboard Modern Rock Tracks (according to Wikipedia). The tune
> received extensive airplay and the video was played in heavy rotation.
> Many listeners were directly or indirectly exposed to the Morissette
> inspired definition of the word ironic. Here are some of the lyrics
> (according to AZlyrics):
>
>    Ironic by Alanis Morissette
>
> An old man turned ninety-eight
> He won the lottery and died the next day
> It's a black fly in your Chardonnay
> It's a death row pardon two minutes too late
> And isn't it ironic... don't you think
>
> It's like rain on your wedding day
> It's a free ride when you've already paid
> It's the good advice that you just didn't take
> Who would've thought... it figures
> ...
> A traffic jam when you're already late
> A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
> It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
> It's meeting the man of my dreams
> And then meeting his beautiful wife
> And isn't it ironic...don't you think
> A little too ironic...and, yeah, I really do think...
>
> http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/alanismorissette/ironic.html
>
> I suspect that the speaker of the words "It was a tiny parade, and
> they shut down Graham Avenue?  There was one float and a horrible
> marching band.  It was very ironic" was influenced by the Morissettian
> definition. The street was closed down with the expectation that a
> grand parade would occur. Instead, a pathetically inconsequentially
> event took place. This fits the pattern of the Morissettian concept of
> irony I think.
>
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 10:34 AM, RonButters <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       RonButters <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: further adventures of "ironic"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > One sense of IRONY is 'a situation in which things do not turn out as one
> of the participants would expect' (dramatic irony). I suppose the player did
> not expect that all of his homers would have been hit against the Tigers.
> The Tigers were probably even more surprised.
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:13:38
> > To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] further adventures of "ironic"
> >
> > It seems to me that "the standard meaning of *ironic*" these days,
> (unless you are in the company of English majors, which god forbid) is
> "marked by a slightly amusing trivial coincidence".  I hear on sports
> broadcasts "He's hit only 3 homeruns this season, and, ironically, they have
> all been against the Tigers."  The drift from that to whatever Tocco may
> have had in mind seems to me to be inevitable.
> >
> > GAT
> >
> > George A. Thompson
> > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rick Barr <rickbarremail at gmail.com>
> > Date: Monday, June 7, 2010 3:19 pm
> > Subject: Re: further adventures of "ironic"
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> >> It's an odd phrase, to say that closing down the street for the languid
> >> parade was very ironic. I agree with George that "strange" is probably
> >> what
> >> the speaker had in mind. But it's a special kind of strange, nuanced
> >> by the
> >> standard meaning of *ironic*, involving a disparity between two things
> >> (the
> >> real and the one that is presented, the intended meaning and the stated
> >> one). I think that's what the speaker was aiming for, that it was
> >> strange to
> >> see such a disparity between the size of the parade and the magnitude
> >> of the
> >> chaos produced by it. I haven't seen other examples of this sort of
> >> "ironic." Might the fact that the man was feeling IRate have prompted
> >> the
> >> choice of IRonic?
> >>
> >> -- Rick
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 11:05 AM, George Thompson <
> george.thompson at nyu.edu>wrote:
> >>
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > -----------------------
> >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> >> > Subject:      further adventures of "ironic"
> >> >
> >> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > An article in today's NYTimes on street processions in the
> Williamsburgh
> >> > area, honoring patron saints, specifically St. Cono, of Teggiano,
> Italy.
> >> >  (section A, p. 16, column 1, for those of us still bound to
> print-on-paper)
> >> >  This area of Williamsburgh was until recently largely inhabited by
> >> Italian
> >> > Catholics, but it seems now has a considerable number of young
> >> residents not
> >> > raised to the tradition.
> >> > One (Chris Tocco, 26, an actor) is quoted as saying: "It was a tiny
> >> parade,
> >> > and they shut down Graham Avenue?  There was one float and a horrible
> >> > marching band.  It was very ironic."
> >> > If Mr. Toco were to be asked to pick a replacement for the word
> "ironic"
> >> > here, he might choose "having the the nature of irony or covert
> sarcasm;
> >> > meaning the opposite of what is expressed"; he might choose "showing
> >> a
> >> > condition of affairs or events of a character opposite to what was,
> >> or might
> >> > naturally be, expected"; he might even choose "being marked by a
> slightly
> >> > amusing trivial coincidence"; but I think he would choose "strange".
> >> >
> >> > A 27 year old onlooker offered the insight "It's kind of like a
> >> vestige of
> >> > the old neighborhoods of Brooklyn".  It is like that, indeed, kind of.
> >> >
> >> > (First two defs. adapted from the OED)
> >> >
> >> > GAT
> >> >
> >> > George A. Thompson
> >> > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> >> > Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
>

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