-like

[victor steinbok]

Original message went to the junk pile, so I could not respond to it right away.

Interesting. Thanks for the tip.

Please forgive the amateur analysis, but I don't think possessive
would save the case here. In fact, I am not even sure I would accept
possessive in any of these cases in my own speech. It sounds more than
a bit awkward to me, even "human's-like feet" (actually, I would
probably tag it as "*", but may accept "?"). Come to think of it,
"human-like feet" sounds to me a lot better than "watermelon-like
seeds". But that has more to do with the fact that "human" here /is/
an adjective, not a noun. One of the other examples, "turtle-like
beak" sounds as bad as the watermelon one.

But all the "bad" examples can be solved by a simple restatement. Why
does "it has a beak like a turtle" work and "it has a turtle-like
beak" does not? The meaning is the same, but syntax is completely
different. And, in fact, the transformation would not work here at
all:

> The fruit of the strangler figs is a favorite of rainforest monkeys, who swallow the small seeds like a watermelon.

Actually, the grammar is ok, it just does not communicate the intended meaning.

Another transformation works, although it may sound a bit colloquial.

It has a turtle-like beak. --> It has a beak, turtle-like.

My limited experience suggests that the latter is an acceptable speech
pattern in some parts of the world (or, at least, the US). But, again,
the watermelon seed example defies this as well:

> The fruit of the strangler figs is a favorite of rainforest monkeys, who swallow the small seeds, watermelon-like.

It's one of these awkward things where the problem is fairly obvious
but the solution less so. But the problem in both of these cases is
that the sentence is a bit more complex, so "like" connects to
something other than "seed".

VS-)

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Neal Whitman <nwhitman at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> I wrote about this at length in a post from 2008 (April 1, 2008, to be
> precise):
> http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/like-it-or-not/
>
> Neal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Steinbok" <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:17 PM
> Subject: -like
>>
>> I tend to be fascinated by expressions that others may find perfectly
>> ordinary. Fortunately, at least some of these do turn out to be
>> interesting to others. So, I am going to try again.
>>
>> When I see "-like" attached to a word, I usually assume that the item in
>> question will be somewhat like the affected object. I am using a broad
>> definition of "object" here--if the "object" in question is a noun, than
>> the final result will resemble something that is represented by that
>> noun (grape-like). If it is an adjective, I expect the item modified by
>> this "-like" word to share some qualities with those described by the
>> adjective but perhaps not all (human-like). So, when I see
>> "watermelon-like", I expect the described object to be somewhat like a
>> watermelon. A "watermelon-like seed" would have to be a large, globular
>> object that happens to be a seed.
>>
>> http://bit.ly/9mA3kS
>>> The fruit of the strangler figs is a favorite of rainforest monkeys,
>>> who swallow the small watermelon-like seeds. Later, they defecate a
>>> pile of seed-containing dung that becomes trapped in a corner between
>>> two branches of another tree high up in the forest. The warm dung acts
>>> as potent fertilizer and the seed germinates into a rootless vine with
>>> appendages that slowly crawl up and down along the trunk and branches.
>>
>> Somehow, despite the exotic context, I don't think the monkeys would be
>> capable of swallowing large watermelon-size seeds whole, only to excrete
>> them later for sprouting--not that I expect the seeds to be large,
>> globular objects. Of course, size and shape are not the only properties
>> of the watermelon that may come to mind when describing something as
>> "watermelon-like". But, what's the point of identifying something as
>> "-like" with second-register properties? Maybe the seeds are not large,
>> but striped green (and still round). Whatever... There is another
>> possibility.
>>
>> OED has two subentries--one for nouns and one for adjectives, each
>> further subdivided into those turning the expression into an adverb and
>> those that don't. Either way, as I mentioned above, the resemblance is
>> meant to be attached to whatever is modified by "-like". Not so here.
>>
>> "Watermelon-like seed", in this case, is a seed that resembles that of a
>> watermelon. Given the choice of expressing the "seedness" twice or
>> contorting the expression, the author appears to have chosen the
>> latter--treating "watermelon" as an adjective. No, really, this is the
>> only possibility I see here.
>>
>>     VS-)

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