Antedating of "Suck"

[Jonathan Lighter]

Prezactly.

What's more, I'd bet that exx. of "suck + [unelaborated] Personal DO" in any
sense (esp. nonsexual and including mosquitos) are very rare before ca1970.

Thus I specifically exclude exx. like, "The quicksand sucked Sarah under"
and "The Great Mosquito of Planet Elmo sucked Sarah dry."

A hunch only.

JL

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Mark Mandel <thnidu at gmail.com> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Antedating of "Suck"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I understood Jon's reply as meaning that
>
> a) this passage says "sucked it", where
>
> b) "it" is anaphoric to the other man's "c - k", and therefore
>
> c) "suck" is being used here in its basic sense, the same as when the
> object
> is a lollipop or a mother's breast or a siphon; and so
>
> d) there's no data here to support an explicitly sexual *sense* of the word
> "suck".
>
> Does "suck" have an explicitly gustatory (or whatever) sense in "suck a
> lollipop"? Same situation, same argument. Sweets, or sex, are in the
> context
> of these examples, not in the verb.
>
> m a m
>
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
>  > Jon, are you arguing that the transitive "explicitly sexual sense"
> > has to have a whole person as the direct object ("sucked him/her"),
> > and disallowing that a part of the person be the direct object
> > ("sucked it", as in the quotation provided)?  Seems too fine a
> > distinction for my tastes.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > At 6/27/2010 02:19 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > >A sexual context but not specifically a "sexual sense."
> > >
> > >An explicitly "sexual sense," to my way of thinking, would have to be
> > either
> > >intransitive or have a personal direct object. Cf.:
> > >
> > >ca1866 _The Romance of Lust_ 26 (rpt. N.Y.: Grove Press, 1968) : To try
> > >again to fuck her as well as suck her.
> > >1975 Joseph Wambaugh _The Choirboys_ 301 (rpt. N.Y.: Dell, 1976) : Look,
> > do
> > >you suck or not?
> > >
> > >HDAS files has an intrans. ex. from 1951.
> > >
> > >
> > >JL
> > >
> > >On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> > > > Subject:      Antedating of "Suck"
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > A website at www.londonlives.org has a very interesting searchable
> > corpus
> > > > of manuscripts and printed materials relating to "Crime, Poverty,
> > > and Social
> > > > Policy in the Metropolis" between 1690 and 1800.  Here is a
> > > citation for the
> > > > verb "suck" in its sexual sense, much before the 1928 first use in
> the
> > > > Oxford English Dictionary (but note 1891 citation in OED s.v.
> > > _cocksucker_):
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1772 _Old Bailey Proceedings_ 9 Sept. (www.londonlives.org)   John
> > Gray <
> > > > no role > . Crook was brought to our watch-house, in Swan-yard, on
> > Monday
> > > > morning, by Dennis; Crook said that on the 3d of September he left
> off
> > work
> > > > in the evening, about seven o'clock; went to the Red Lion in
> > Moorfields, to
> > > > drink a pint of beer; that just as he had drunk the beer, Gibson
> > > came in and
> > > > sat down by him; that Gibson asked him to drink with him; that when
> he
> > > > called for another pint, he asked him if he knew Dick that had lived
> > there;
> > > > said he, he had a fine - fit to do Mrs. - ; he said after that, he
> went
> > out
> > > > at the door to make water, and Gibson followed him, and said,
> > > what sort of a
> > > > c - k have you got? Dick was just such another slim young man as
> > > you; let me
> > > > teel it; which he did; he said it was not so big as his; that then he
> > took
> > > > him down to the vault, forced him down on the seat, onbuttoned
> > > his breeches,
> > > > then worked him till he made it come, and then sucked it; that he
> > worked it
> > > > again s!
> > > >  ometime; that then he pressed him very close, called him his dear,
> > hugged
> > > > him and squeezed him and sat down, put his hand behind him, and put
> it
> > into
> > > > his b - e, and worked up and down till he hurt him vastly, and he
> > believed
> > > > made him bleed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fred Shapiro
> > > > Editor
> > > > YALE BOOK OF QUOTATIONS (Yale University Press)
> >
> >
>
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