Antedating of _doo(-)wop_

Mon Mar 1 08:53:32 UTC 2010

About "doo wop" wikipedia has:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doo-wop

"In the beginning and during its heyday, this type of music did not have a specific name; the term "doo-wop" was not used.
In the 1950s, this type of harmonized group sound was referred to (broadly) as "rock and roll," but more narrowly as "R&B." However, R&B was still too general a term, since R&B included single artists, instrumentalists, and jump blues bands, as well as vocal groups. At the time, the best and most accurate term used was probably "vocal group harmony," but the style still did not have an official name, despite the fact that it dominated the charts in the late 1950s and early 1960s. The term "doo-wop" first appeared in print in 1961, notably in the Chicago Defender, when fans of the music coined the term during the height of a vocal harmony resurgence.[citation needed]
There is confusion regarding which recording was the "first" to contain the phrase "doo-wop." There is general acknowledgement that the first hit record to use the syllables "doo-wop" in the refrain was the 1955 hit, "When You Dance" by The Turbans (Herald Records H-458), in which the chant "doo-wop" can clearly be heard.[2]"

>From my own recollection I'm trying to remember background lyrics that include "doo wap" or "doo wop" in them.  To me it sounds like "doo wop" in Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers original "Why do fools fall in love".  Though the lyric sheets say "oh wah, oh wah, oh wah, oh wah, oh wah, oh wah"
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/frankie-lymon-why-do-fools-fall-in-love-lyrics.html

"The single was released in January 1956 to avoid the Christmas rush. The group was not notified that it was released - they found out when a group member heard a classmate singing it at school."  Frankie Lymon was 13 and filled in for the lead singer who was sick at the time.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2033

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling

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> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:21:34 -0500
> From: bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU
> Subject: Re: Antedating of _doo(-)wop_
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Benjamin Zimmer
> Subject: Re: Antedating of _doo(-)wop_
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wilson, I wasn't trying to one-up your interpretation! Far from it.
> What I found interesting about the quote is Davis's reference to the
> song as "a doo-wop." When the 1961 cite enters the OED (as it surely
> will), the "doo-wop" entry will need to be expanded to include this
> sort of count-noun usage (i.e., "a song [with such-and-such
> characteristics]"). Later cites would fit into the mass-noun "genre"
> usage the OED already has ("a variety of (orig. American) vocal group
> music [etc.]"). A good comparison would be "rap" in the musical sense
> -- the count noun (rap = 'a rap song') predates the mass noun (rap =
> 'rap music').
>
> But you're quite correct that either the count-noun or mass-noun usage
> could be considered an instantiation of a genre. Sorry to suggest
> otherwise. (And the 1965 cite I gave is attributive anyway, so it's
> neither here nor there, really.)
>
> --Ben Zimmer
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I got that the reviewer was referring specifically to Blue Moon,
>> by The Marcels - I was still in the Army when that was new, but
>> American black music, *all* on the Decca label, hit Army towns about
>> as quickly as they were released in the States. You noted the
>> reference to "like those of many years ago," right? IMO, that means
>> "genre" and not a given example of it.
>>
>> I refuse to accept your argument. Different strokes... If you choose
>> to believe that you somehow are better able to understand this better
>> I can, just because you choose to interpret a line from a newspaper in
>> a different way, knock yourself out. I tried to make it as obvious as
>> I could why I chose my interpretation. But, if you'd rather make some
>> other claim, based on the fact that the reviewer is clearly referring
>> to what he considers to be a current example of what he specifically
>> states is an older genre, what can I tell you? "To each their own," to
>> quote the annoying slogan of a Boston-area second-hand store.
>>
>> You also might try reading this book and others on the topic. It might
>> give you a better picture of what the history of this style of music
>> is.
>>
>> OTOH, as any fool can plainly hear, The Marcels' version of "Blue
>> Moon" is hardly an example of the doo-wop that I grew up with, which
>> was pretty much killed by "The Twist" and the Motown Sound. If the
>> reviewer believes that it is, he's clearly several years younger than
>> I am.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Benjamin Zimmer
>> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Benjamin Zimmer
>>> Subject: Re: Antedating of _doo(-)wop_
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>>
>>>> HDAS:
>>>>
>>>> doo-wop. 1969 In OED2 ...
>>>>
>>>> Gribbin, Anthony J., PhD, and Matthew M. Schiff, MD. Doo-Wop. Iola, WI, c1992.
>>>>
>>>> Quoting the Chicago Defender. March 18, 1961: "... A real doo-wop,
>>>> *like those of many years ago* [emphasis supplied], is making the
>>>> scene but big in Chi-town ..."
>>>
>>> Very interesting. I can't seem to pull up the relevant article in the
>>> Defender (I think the version of ProQuest I'm accessing only has the
>>> national edition, not the local edition, for that date). But another
>>> forum says this was by Chuck Davis, Jr. (who wrote the Defender's
>>> "Platters" column), referring to "Blue Moon" by the Marcels. So
>>> "doo-wop" here is evidently referring to a song, rather than the whole
>>> genre.
>>>
>>> The earliest cite I've found for "doo-wop" as a genre is also from the Defender:
>>>
>>> ---
>>> 1965 _Chicago Defender_ 13 Nov. 26A/3 People who hate rock and roll,
>>> rhythm and blues, The Beatles, and doo~wop singing groups, go wild
>>> about Ray Charles.
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> --Ben Zimmer
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Wilson
>> –––
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> –Mark Twain
>>
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>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
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