The bird

[Paul]

Paul johnson
I have a clear memory of a phrase (which I may mangle) "Like fishes
mount, like birdies perch, sit on this" accompanied by the finger
gesture we've grown to love so well. And that would have been no later
than 1950 when I left high school

On 3/6/2010 8:31 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> I didn't hear it till 1970. HDAS shows the documentary evidence is not much
> older.
>
> JL
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Wilson Gray<hwgray at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Wilson Gray<hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: The bird
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> A propos of nothing, I was ca.35 before I ever heard the phrase, "flip
>> someone the bird." After asking my interlocutor what she meant, I was
>> surprised to discover that it meant the same as "slip someone the
>> finger."
>>
>> Youneverknow.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:52 AM, Peter McGraw
>> <mrlanguageperson at verizon.net>  wrote:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>
>> -----------------------
>>
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Peter McGraw<mrlanguageperson at VERIZON.NET>
>>> Subject:      Re: The bird
>>>
>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> "Slip" is=A0exactly what it says.=A0 The document uses the same two
>>>
>> styles =
>>
>>> of the letter s that are found in the U.S. constitution.=A0 A
>>>
>> contemporary =
>>
>>> reader of the document would not have confused this word with
>>>
>> "flip."=0A=0A=
>>
>>> Peter McGraw=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Dan
>>>
>> Gon=
>>
>>> charoff<thegonch at GMAIL.COM>=0ATo: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=0ASent: Thu,
>>>
>> Marc=
>>
>>> h 4, 2010 7:16:39 PM=0ASubject: Re: The bird=0A=0A----------------------
>>>
>> In=
>>
>>> formation from the mail header -----------------------=0ASender:=A0 =A0
>>>
>> =A0=
>>
>>>   American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>=0APoster:=A0 =A0 =A0
>>>
>> Dan=
>>
>>>   Goncharoff<thegonch at GMAIL.COM>=0ASubject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Re: The
>>>
>> bird=0A-----=
>>
>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>
>>> =0A=0AI read this as "slip the bird", as in "let slip the bird which he
>>>
>> had=
>>
>>>   in=0Ahis hand". But then, what do I know?=0A=0ADanG=0A=0AOn 3/4/2010
>>>
>> 9:23 =
>>
>>> PM, Victor Steinbok wrote:=0A>  ---------------------- Information from
>>>
>> the =
>>
>>> mail header -----------------------=0A>  Sender:=A0 =A0 =A0 American
>>>
>> Dialect=
>>
>>>   Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>=0A>  Poster:=A0 =A0 =A0 Victor
>>>
>> Steinbok<aar=
>>
>>> dvark66 at GMAIL.COM>=0A>  Subject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Re: The bird=0A>
>>>
>> ---------------=
>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------=0A>=0A>
>>>
>> I =
>>
>>> have no doubt that the meaning in the following is quite literal, but=0A>
>>>
>> i=
>>
>>> t is still interesting because it is the only one of its kind that I=0A>
>>>
>> fo=
>>
>>> und pre-1900=0A>=0A>  http://bit.ly/bcfK2q=0A>=0A>  For this to have been
>>>
>> a e=
>>
>>> uphemism, there would have to have been a=0A>  breakdown in communication,
>>>
>> a=
>>
>>> t some point, for Harris (the translator)=0A>  means it quite
>>>
>> literally.=0A>=
>>
>>> =0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 VS-)=0A>=0A>  On 3/4/2010 7:22 PM, Jonathan Lighter
>>>
>> wrote:=
>>
>>> =0A>=0A>>  The photo in question appeared in 1996 in Geoffrey C. Ward's
>>>
>> _Bas=
>>
>>> eball_,=0A>>  written to accompany Ken Burns's TV series.=0A>>=0A>>  As
>>>
>> HDAS =
>>
>>> notes, _Funk&=A0 Wagnall's Standard Dictionary_ of 1890-93 amazingly=0A>>
>>>
>> i=
>>
>>> ncludes the phrase "give someone the finger," somewhat lamely defined,
>>>
>> and=
>>
>>> =0A>>  with no apparent suggestion of obscenity.=0A>>=0A>>  My=A0 SWAG is
>>>
>> tha=
>>
>>> t the gesture became widespread/ familiar to the "educated"=0A>>  in the
>>>
>> 188=
>>
>>> 0s, which seems to imply a long underground existence.=0A>>=0A>>  Maybe it
>>>
>> w=
>>
>>> as popularized during the Civil War.=0A>>=0A>>  I've never seen any
>>>
>> document=
>>
>>> ation earlier than the photo.=A0 In the light=0A>>  of the gesture's
>>>
>> apparen=
>>
>>> t existence in Ancient Rome, one can only guess that=0A>>  it may have
>>>
>> been =
>>
>>> introduced into modern American culture by (very=0A>>  conservative)
>>>
>> Italian=
>>
>>>   immigrants.=A0 Another SWAG, of course.=0A>>=0A>>  JL=0A>>=0A>>  On Thu,
>>>
>> Mar=
>>
>>>   4, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC<=0A>>  Bill.Mullins at us.army.mil
>>> =
>>> =A0 wrote:=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------=
>>
>>> ---------------=0A>  The American Dialect Society -
>>>
>> http://www.americandiale=
>>
>>> ct.org
>>>
>> =0A>=0A>=0A=0A-------------------------------------------------------=
>>
>>> -----=0AThe American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org=0A
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Wilson
>> –––
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> –Mark Twain
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>
>
>
>

--




If anybody out there still thinks Sarah Palin is not a retard, tell it to
the hand...

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org