The bird

Mon Mar 8 07:19:44 UTC 2010

It was during or about the year 1970 that my age was somewhere in the
neighborhood of 35 years, sadly. My classmate was from a small,
vineyard town in Deep-Northern California, giving me the impression
that "flip the bird" was some hick, backwater expression. However, as
is so often the case, after I had heard the phrase once, suddenly I
was hearing - and reading - it everywhere.

Youneverknow.

-Wilson

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: The bird
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I didn't hear it till 1970. HDAS shows the documentary evidence is not much
> older.
>
> JL
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: The bird
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> A propos of nothing, I was ca.35 before I ever heard the phrase, "flip
>> someone the bird." After asking my interlocutor what she meant, I was
>> surprised to discover that it meant the same as "slip someone the
>> finger."
>>
>> Youneverknow.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:52 AM, Peter McGraw
>> <mrlanguageperson at verizon.net> wrote:
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Peter McGraw <mrlanguageperson at VERIZON.NET>
>> > Subject:      Re: The bird
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>> >
>> > "Slip" is=3DA0exactly what it says.=3DA0 The document uses the same two
>> styles =3D
>> > of the letter s that are found in the U.S. constitution.=3DA0 A
>> contemporary =3D
>> > reader of the document would not have confused this word with
>> "flip."=3D0A=3D0A=3D
>> > Peter McGraw=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A________________________________=
> =3D0AFrom: Dan
>> Gon=3D
>> > charoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>=3D0ATo: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=3D0ASent: T=
> hu,
>> Marc=3D
>> > h 4, 2010 7:16:39 PM=3D0ASubject: Re: The bird=3D0A=3D0A---------------=
> -------
>> In=3D
>> > formation from the mail header -----------------------=3D0ASender:=3DA0=
>  =3DA0
>> =3DA0=3D
>> >  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>=3D0APoster:=3DA0 =3D=
> A0 =3DA0
>> Dan=3D
>> >  Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>=3D0ASubject:=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 Re: The
>> bird=3D0A-----=3D
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -=3D
>> > =3D0A=3D0AI read this as "slip the bird", as in "let slip the bird whic=
> h he
>> had=3D
>> >  in=3D0Ahis hand". But then, what do I know?=3D0A=3D0ADanG=3D0A=3D0AOn =
> 3/4/2010
>> 9:23 =3D
>> > PM, Victor Steinbok wrote:=3D0A> ---------------------- Information fro=
> m
>> the =3D
>> > mail header -----------------------=3D0A> Sender:=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 Amer=
> ican
>> Dialect=3D
>> >  Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>=3D0A> Poster:=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 Victor
>> Steinbok<aar=3D
>> > dvark66 at GMAIL.COM>=3D0A> Subject:=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 Re: The bird=3D0A>
>> ---------------=3D
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------=3D0A>=
> =3D0A>
>> I =3D
>> > have no doubt that the meaning in the following is quite literal, but=
> =3D0A>
>> i=3D
>> > t is still interesting because it is the only one of its kind that I=3D=
> 0A>
>> fo=3D
>> > und pre-1900=3D0A>=3D0A> http://bit.ly/bcfK2q=3D0A>=3D0A> For this to h=
> ave been
>> a e=3D
>> > uphemism, there would have to have been a=3D0A> breakdown in communicat=
> ion,
>> a=3D
>> > t some point, for Harris (the translator)=3D0A> means it quite
>> literally.=3D0A>=3D
>> > =3D0A>=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 VS-)=3D0A>=3D0A> On 3/4/2010 7:22 PM, Jonathan =
> Lighter
>> wrote:=3D
>> > =3D0A>=3D0A>> The photo in question appeared in 1996 in Geoffrey C. War=
> d's
>> _Bas=3D
>> > eball_,=3D0A>> written to accompany Ken Burns's TV series.=3D0A>>=3D0A>=
>> As
>> HDAS =3D
>> > notes, _Funk&=3DA0 Wagnall's Standard Dictionary_ of 1890-93 amazingly=
> =3D0A>>
>> i=3D
>> > ncludes the phrase "give someone the finger," somewhat lamely defined,
>> and=3D
>> > =3D0A>> with no apparent suggestion of obscenity.=3D0A>>=3D0A>> My=3DA0=
>  SWAG is
>> tha=3D
>> > t the gesture became widespread/ familiar to the "educated"=3D0A>> in t=
> he
>> 188=3D
>> > 0s, which seems to imply a long underground existence.=3D0A>>=3D0A>> Ma=
> ybe it
>> w=3D
>> > as popularized during the Civil War.=3D0A>>=3D0A>> I've never seen any
>> document=3D
>> > ation earlier than the photo.=3DA0 In the light=3D0A>> of the gesture's
>> apparen=3D
>> > t existence in Ancient Rome, one can only guess that=3D0A>> it may have
>> been =3D
>> > introduced into modern American culture by (very=3D0A>> conservative)
>> Italian=3D
>> >  immigrants.=3DA0 Another SWAG, of course.=3D0A>>=3D0A>> JL=3D0A>>=3D0A=
>>> On Thu,
>> Mar=3D
>> >  4, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC<=3D0A>> Bill.Mullins at us.army.=
> mil
>> >=3D
>> > =3DA0 wrote:=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>
>> ---------------------------------------------=3D
>> > ---------------=3D0A> The American Dialect Society -
>> http://www.americandiale=3D
>> > ct.org
>> =3D0A>=3D0A>=3D0A=3D0A---------------------------------------------------=
> ----=3D
>> > -----=3D0AThe American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org=
> =3D0A
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Wilson
>> =96=96=96
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=96=96a strange complaint t=
> o
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> =96Mark Twain
>>
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>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --=20
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
-Wilson
–––
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
–Mark Twain

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