"tree of liberty" and "liberty tree"

[DanG]

victor steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

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>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       victor steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
>Subject:      Re: "tree of liberty" and "liberty tree"
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>
>I agree, in principle, that the OED appears to have bungled the
>definition here--in fact, it seems somewhat odd that they used it in
>reference to something that was undoubtedly named in French, following
>the earlier idea in English that the OED does not cite. I don't doubt
>that the French expression translated into English "Tree of Liberty",
>but how could they possibly miss the claims that the French named it
>following the American expression??
>
>I also agree that there should be a separate, but related entry for
>the metaphoric meaning of "Tree of Liberty". It is a more delicate
>question as to the relation of the two meanings--1a and 1b, for
>instance, as opposed to 1 and 2. It is here, I suspect, that Mr.
>Berson and I disagree, not in the principle that there should be two
>separate entries.
>
>VS-)
>
>On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>>
>> At 3/7/2010 12:28 AM, Garson O'Toole wrote:
>>>FYI: Google Books does contain an earlier edition of Pamela dated 1742
>>>with a Bodleian Library gift bookplate. The date inscription
>>>M.DCC.XLII is given on the title page of volume three which contains
>>>the phrase "Boughs of the Tree of Liberty".
>>
>> Regardless -- this has no bearing on the OED's definition of (or
>> "sense" for) and dating of
>>      tree of liberty, a tree (or a pole) planted in celebration of a
>> revolution or victory securing liberty (chiefly in reference to the
>> French Revolution).
>>
>> (My only, but a severe, objection, is that the OED's definition of
>> "liberty tree = tree of liberty" -- thus completely ignoring the
>> American Revolution in the definitions ... but perhaps they're a
>> bunch of reactionary Tory loyalists over there.)
>>
>> Whether the metaphoric sense of "tree of liberty", from Richardson or
>> elsewhere, deserves a (separate) definition and set of quotations in
>> the OED is a separate question.
>>
>> Joel
>>
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