Query: "I've got your number."

George Thompson george.thompson at NYU.EDU
Wed Mar 17 17:45:58 UTC 2010 

References to House-numbers, from NY City newspapers:
        FRONT TEETH.  ANY Person disposed to part with their FRONT TEETH, may call at No. 28, Maiden-Lane, and shall have a good price for them.  Also, some DRY TEETH are wanted.
        Independent Journal, November 24, 1783, p. 3, col. 3
        STRAYED, THE 20th instant, from No. 24, Maiden Lane, A Little Brown DOG, about two months old.  ***
        Diary, or Ev Register, January 24, 1794, p. 3, col. 3

        Subscribers to the Morning Chronicle who change their residence, are requested to sent WRITTEN information to the office, No. 99, Water-street.  And it is particularly requested that they will mention also the street and number FROM which they remove.
        M Chronicle, May 3, 1805, p. 2, col. 4

        [a stranger, recently moved into the city, advised the corporation to attend to the numbering of city houses; without numbers, the Directory is little use]
        N-Y E Post, July 18, 1810, p. 3, col. 2
        [houses in the city should have numbers]
        Commercial Advertiser, December 26, 1816, p. 2, cols. 2-3
and later references, into the 1820s, suggesting that house-numbers weren't always displayed.  (And, indeed, there was an article to this effect in the NYTimes of Monday or Tuesday.  (I do occasionally read a newspaper not printed 200 ears ago.))

References to numbers on hacks and delivery-wagons:
        [a complaint lodged against a crooked hackney coach driver; asked double fare on a rainy night; refused to take the passenger for the established fare; refused to give his name and license number; fines: $10, $15, $10]  The impositions and insolence of Hackney coachmen, are proverbial the world over; but if every person imposed on, or attempted to be imposed on by them, would but do an act of duty, by taking the trouble to enter a complaint against them for a breach of the laws, . . . we should soon see this growing evil checked in New-York.
        N-Y E Post, August 30, 1815, p. 2, cols. 4 5  (Impositions by cab drivers were also the subject of a recent NYTimes article)
        There goes a pig; there a buck in a chaise rattles over the curb stones; there gallops a cartman -- take his number, or the mayor will not believe you. . . .  ***
        National Advocate, July 18, 1818, p. 2, cols. 1-2

        Meanwhile, my own understanding of the expression "I've got your number" is not "I can make trouble for you; I can get back at you" but "I understand what a low, contemptible fellow you are".

GAT

George A. Thompson
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:32 am
Subject: Re: Query: "I've got your number."
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

> What about house number on your street?  "I know where you
> live."  When did houses begin to be given numbers, in England or the
> U.S.?  (Not in the first half of the 18th century, in New
> England.  But by the time of Sherlock Holmes.)
>
> As for Victor's (5), instead of the witness's number, is this a
> document number or case number?  In the 17th century court records in
> Massachusetts, cases were numbered, presumably for cross-referencing
> when there were intervening records (e.g., depositions taken one
> session, trial at a later session).
>
> And of course baseball players who want a former star's old number.
>
> Joel
>
> At 3/17/2010 01:59 AM, victor steinbok wrote:
> >There can be no question that George Thompson is correct in his
> >observation--a number of sources from 1841 forward confirm this use of
> >"I've got your/his number", and I found references in a variety of US
> >and UK sources, including Alcott's novels. The problem is, the same
> >expression was used in a number of other contexts.
> >
> >1) Cabs/Cab drivers (hansoms)--both US and UK
> >2) Policemen--UK
> >3) Bus (Omnibus) drivers--London
> >4) Regiment and other subdivision numbers--UK (from Wellington's
> >dispatches to commanders at Waterloo)--when someone relinquished a
> >command and was later commissioned again to the same rank, they often
> >wanted their old regiments/divisions/etc. back, but someone else might
> >have "got his number".
> >5) Very common references in British Commissions (Royal/Parliamentary)
> >who, while questioning witnesses, would respond to submitted records
> >(usually in advance, with copies held by witnesses) with "I've got
> >your number." I am not quite sure why it's "number" and not "numbers",
> >but that's what's on record. Of course, I did not search for "numbers"
> >so such references may be even more numerous. The bottom line is that
> >it was the same turn of phrase and used during the same period.
> >
> >The earliest reference, by far, is (4), Wellington's dispatches in
> >1815. This is followed by (1) and (3), from the 1840s forward, (2) and
> >(5) from 1870s forward. (I only checked as far as 1890.)
> >
> >There are a few other, apparently isolated references, such as hotel
> >room number that could be observed when the keys are handed over to
> >the porter or clerk (still common practice in Europe, but not US),
> >and, of course, generic use from 1840s forward.
> >
> >I have most of the references covered, but don't have time to deal
> >with it now. I am not sure how helpful all of this is, as it seems to
> >muddy the scene more than resolving it. But one can't go wrong with
> >(1), even if it's an indication of a particular SES subclass. And full
> >credit to George.
> >
> >VS-)
> >
> >On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:31 PM, George Thompson
> ><george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > By the 1820s, at least, in NYC, hacks were required to carry a
> > clearly readable number, one that would be lit up at night, to help
> > identify the hack, whether in traffic cases -- hit & run, &c. -- or
> > in complaints by riders.  No doubt there was a similar policy in
> > London -- a much larger city.
> > > An irate passenger/driver could threaten "I've got your number,
> > you won't get away with this."
> > >
> > > GAT
> > >
> > > George A. Thompson
> > > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> > Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: victor steinbok <aardvark66 at gmail.com>
> > > Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:05 pm
> > > Subject: Re: Query: "I've got your number."
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >
> > >> Clearly not telephone. Consider this line from a 1844 Punch poem.
> > >>
> > >> http://books.google.com/books?id=40wPAQAAIAAJ
> > >> Punch, Vol. 7, 1844, p. 261
> > >>
> > >> The Buss-Driver's Lament Over Bygone Days.
> > >>
> > >> ...
> > >> When we,--that is, myself and cad,--
> > >> Could o'er our pewters slumber ;
> > >> But, stop an instant now, 'gad !
> > >> The p'liceman 's got your number.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> But all this show is that the expression was in use in 1844 London,
> > >> not where it came from.
> > >>
> > >> I do have a couple of guesses, but I'll post them later. I hope this
> > >> is not a rush question.
> > >>
> > >> VS-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Laurence Horn
> > >> <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > At 6:14 PM -0500 3/16/10, Gerald Cohen wrote:
> > >> >>  A colleague has asked me about the origin of the slang phrase
> > >> "I've got
> > >> >>your number" (= to have precise, useful knowledge of someone's
> > weaknesses;
> > >> >>have someone in a critical position).
> > >> >>
> > >> >>I checked Jonathan Lighter's excellent HDAS and see examples going
> > >> back to
> > >> >>1853, but I don't see an etymology given, so I suppose this silence
> > >> equates
> > >> >>to "Origin unknown."
> > >> >>
> > >> >>I see various items on the expression in Google but am not clear
> > >> about their
> > >> >>reliability.  Would anyone know what the "number" originally
> > >> referred to?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>Gerald Cohen
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> > I always assumed, without any privileged knowledge, that it referred
> > >> > to a phone number:  I've got your number, I know where to reach/get
> > >> > to you, you can't escape...   Maybe evoking those old movies like
> > >> > "Dial M for Murder", in which the bad guy has the good guy/gal's
> > >> > (phone) number and can call it at will to raise the latter's fear
> > >> > quotient and the audience's tension.  But that's just a guess.
> > >> >
> > >> > LH
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

More information about the Ads-l mailing list