_Break nasty_ = "jump salty"
Jonathan Lighter
wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Tue May 4 12:28:31 UTC 2010
I've always taken "Good on you!" to be Australian.
I"ve never taken "Sad on you" that way because this is the first time I've
ever seen it.
So it may well be USBE. (Infl. by Australian in WWII?)
JL
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: _Break nasty_ = "jump salty"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Jon, my guess, to paraphrase my wife, is that you simply "lack
> sufficient interest"" in straight-to-cable, PG-13, "art" cinema. Well,
> it's your loss, man. Sad on you. ;-). BTW, the title was precisely
> "The Lambada, The Forbidden Dance."
>
> BTW, isn't "good on you" present in at least some non-U.S. varieties
> of English? OTOH, AFAIK, "sad on you" is peculiar to U,S. BE.
>
> -Wilson
>
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject: Re: _Break nasty_ = "jump salty"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I missed it, Wilson. How could I have done that?
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject: Re: _Break nasty_ =3D "jump salty"
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > ------
> >>
> >> Have you seen the movie? Way less depressing than any of that
> >> "Mandingo" crap and doesn't require any imagination, in the way that
> >> "Voodoo Fire" does! ;-)
> >>
> >> =3DWilson
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> > Subject: Re: _Break nasty_ =3D "jump salty"
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > ------
> >> >
> >> > But what of the lambada, "the Forbidden Dance"?
> >> >
> >> > JL
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> -----------------------
> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >> Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >> >> Subject: Re: _Break nasty_ =3D3D "jump salty"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > =3D
> >> > ------
> >> >>
> >> >> In the book, Voodoo Fire in Haiti, by Richard A. Loederer, 1932, the
> >> >> "danse kalinda" is identified as pretty much the center of the voodoo
> >> >> ceremony and also states that "la meringue," possibly the same dance
> >> >> now known in Spanish as "la merengue," is the national dance of
> Haiti.
> >> >> Nowadays, the merengue regarded as the national dance of the
> Dominican
> >> >> Republic, called "Saint-Domingue" by Loederer.
> >> >>
> >> >> The only story that I've ever heard - don't remember where; it may
> >> >> even have been in Voodoo Fire - WRT the origin of the merengue is
> that
> >> >> a king of Haiti had a son with one leg shorter than the other and,
> >> >> hence, the son was a very awkward dancer. Better dancers, not wanting
> >> >> to piss off the king by making the kid look lame, no pun intended,
> >> >> adapted the prince's movements to their own style of dancing, thereby
> >> >> preserving his dignity and their own arses.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you're familiar with the merengue's basic steps, this story seems
> >> >> quite plausible. But that would still be the case, if the story had
> >> >> merely been pulled out of somebody's ass. AFAIK, nowadays nobody
> >> >> mentions any such Haitian dance as la merinqu=3DE9 or connects the
> >> >> Dominican merengue with Haiti.
> >> >>
> >> >> I wouldn't bet money that the story was true.
> >> >>
> >> >> IAC, Loederer writes:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "The marimba band started a melody of strangely cloying and
> oppressive
> >> >> rhythm.
> >> >> A murmur ran around the room: _'La Merinque!_'
> >> >> _The national dance of Haiti!_
> >> >> Against a background of ponderous vibrations, the tune sobbed through
> >> >> the smoky air in a monstrous abortion of the tango. It was a strange
> >> >> dance. It was more than a dance=3D96a ritual performance, an ovation
> t=
> > o
> >> >> love, the ultimate love symbolized in the pairs of bodies, male and
> >> >> female, so closely entwined as to be molten into one by the fierce
> >> >> heat of their desire. They swayed over the floor, flexing this way
> and
> >> >> that, eyes closed, mouths open, forgetting everything in the rapture
> >> >> of their embrace and the subtle discords of the music."
> >> >>
> >> >> And WRT to the dance Kalinda:
> >> >>
> >> >> "It was the great purification. Only after a baptism of blood can the
> >> >> good spirit Damballa enter the soul. A broad-shouldered, athletic
> >> >> negro jumped up in front of me and shouted: 'Commencons! Danse
> >> >> Calinda!' ...
> >> >> A solid ring of naked, sweaty formed around the fire. They were
> >> >> dancing the Calinda! More and more performers joined in, bodies
> >> >> pressed close against one another, men and women, rubbing body to
> body
> >> >> in the red glow of the flames. The irregular circle of a hundred
> >> >> bodies molten into one Hydra-headed monster was carried along on
> >> >> jerking bodies and stamping feet. The drums rolled faster. The black
> >> >> throng revolved with ever-increasing rapidity. Around and around they
> >> >> went, as the ground shook under the impact of two hundred feet!"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Whew!
> >> >>
> >> >> -Wilson
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Mark Mandel <thnidu at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> -----------------------
> >> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >> > Poster: Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
> >> >> > Subject: Re: _Break nasty_ =3D3D "jump salty"
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > =3D
> >> > ------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Then there may well be a connection. And I shouldn't have called it
> =
> > "a
> >> >> Dr.
> >> >> > John song": Dr. John (Mack Rebennack) recorded a version of it on
> >> >> > "Gris-Gris" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gris-Gris), but I have
> no
> >> ide=3D
> >> > a
> >> >> > whether he wrote it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I found the album in the basement, and I still don't know. The song
> =
> > is
> >> >> > credited as "By Dr. John Creaux", another form of his in-character
> >> stag=3D
> >> > e
> >> >> > name. But "Danse Kalinda Ba Doom" is credited "By Dr. John Creaux &
> >> >> Harold
> >> >> > Battiste", while the jacket notes (=3D3DC2=3D3DA9 1968 Atlantic
> Reco=
> > rding
> >> >> Corporati=3D3D
> >> >> > on)
> >> >> > suggest that it's based on a trad. song:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I HAVE ALSO DUG UP THE OLD DANSE KALINDA TO REMIND YOU WE HAVE NOT
> >> >> CHOPPED
> >> >> > OUT THE OLD CHANTS... [uppercase sic].
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Maybe I'll ask the Digital Tradition / Mudcat Forum, but not
> tonight=
> > .
> >> >> >
> >> >> > (Whoops, I see I conflated the idioms this morning, typing "jump
> >> nasty"
> >> >> > instead of "jump steady".)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Mark Mandel
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 7:57 PM, George Thompson
> >> <george.thompson at nyu.ed=3D
> >> > u
> >> >> >wr=3D3D
> >> >> > ote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I months or so ago I heard Louis Armstrong sing a number with the
> >> >> >> expression "Jump Study" in the refrain. Definitely "Study", not
> >> >> "Steady"
> >> >> >> (which would make some sense) or "Sturdy"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Probably dated from the later 1930s or ealy 1940s.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> GAT
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> George A. Thompson
> >> >> >> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> >> Northwestern
> >> >> >> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> From: Mark Mandel <thnidu at gmail.com>
> >> >> >> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010 10:51 am
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: _Break nasty_ =3D3D3D "jump salty"
> >> >> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Interesting. I had not heard or seen either of these idioms
> befor=
> > e.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "Jump nasty" immediately reminded me of a Dr. John song
> (N.Orlean=
> > s,
> >> >> >> sixties
> >> >> >> > - present) with the chorus
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Jump Sturdy, Jump Sturdy was her name.
> >> >> >> > She came out the swamp like a crazy fool.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > But I don't see any plausible connection. (The song, titled
> "Jump
> >> >> >> Sturdy",
> >> >> >> > is on his first LP, "*Gris-Gris"*, issued in the late sixties.)
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > m a m
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com>
> >> wrote=3D
> >> > :
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > Now in UD, with a surprising-reasonable set of definitions,
> fro=
> > m
> >> >> 2005=3D3D
> >> >> > .
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Otherwise, as far as the Web is concerned, _break nasty_
> occurs
> >> on=3D
> >> > ly
> >> >> >> > > in the environment immediately before "... habits."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> -Wilson
> >> >> =3D96=3D96=3D96
> >> >> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=3D96=3D96a strange
> comp=
> > laint
> >> t=3D
> >> > o
> >> >> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >> >> =3D96Mark Twain
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --=3D20
> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -Wilson
> >> =96=96=96
> >> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=96=96a strange complaint
> t=
> > o
> >> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >> =96Mark Twain
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --=20
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -Wilson
> –––
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> –Mark Twain
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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