Fw: [ADS-L] yoda as a generic

Tue May 4 21:17:24 UTC 2010

The legal sense of "generic" says that the true origin must be forgotten for a term to be a true generic. That is why Kleenex and Xerox are not true generics; I would call them pseudogenerics,  and at best Yoda fits into that category, and then only in the limited use that any famous name is used. Indeed, the examples that have veen proposed would be rather pointless if people did NOT make a strong commextion with the movie character. Even "quisling" is I expect known by the relatively few people who would ever use it as related to a historical figure. Why not just say "traitor" or "guru"?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
Date:         Tue, 4 May 2010 14:10:51
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] yoda as a generic

There is?  Other than the denotation, I mean.

Now if the contrast were, "He's a regular Yoda" and "He's a quisling," I'd
have to agree.  If one turns to Ron as their linguistics yoda, surely that's
generic.

I prophesy/prophesize that if "yoda" is not yet widely used and recognized
as a synonym for "guru," it soon will be.

Also, who sez the origin must be forgotten to make a "true generic"?

JL

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Charles Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Charles Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: yoda as a generic
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ron may be grumpy, but I'd say he's also RIGHT. There's all the difference
> in the world, lexically, between "He's a yoda" and "He's a quisling."
>
> --Charlie
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 13:42:14 -0400
> >From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of
> Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>)
> >
> >Ron, are you auditioning for Grinch or for Scrooge? Or are you trying to
> >genericize your own name?
> >
> >I know, I know--you're one of the happiest people you know. And I can
> >outgrump you any day.
> >
> >Fine... you don't like genericization in this case. I don't see the
> >problem, but I'll grant you the point. Would you settle for a
> >"snowclonelet" of "the Yoda of X"? That does not solve the problem of
> >"my Yoda", but it does address this particular usage, does it not?
> >
> >     VS-)
> >
> >On 5/4/2010 1:02 PM, ronbutters at AOL.COM wrote:
> >> It is (apparently) true that the quotation that Amy cites has one of the
> legal markers of generics: it is not Capitalized. Even so, I don't think it
> is really generic, the fundamental criterion for which is that most people
> do not recognize a connection between the word and its etymogical proper
> noun. Any name can be used the way YODA is used here. Even "quixotic" is
> probably not truly generic for most people who know the word.
> >> ------Original Message------
> >> From: Dave Wilton
> >> Sender: ADS-L
> >> To: ADS-L
> >> ReplyTo: ADS-L
> >> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] yoda as a generic
> >> Sent: May 4, 2010 5:14 PM
> >>
> >> It's been around a while. From Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 3,
> "School
> >> Hard," shooting script 7/30/1997, by David Greenwalt:
> >>
> >> Spike talking to Angel: "You think you can fool me? You were my sire,
> >> man...you were my Yoda!"
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of
> >> Amy West
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 7:19 AM
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> Subject: yoda as a generic
> >>
> >> (I did a quick search of the since-1999 ADS-L archive and the
> >> before-April-2008 Language Log archive before posting this: I
> >> apologize if I missed something.)
> >>
> >> I spotted this use of "yoda" as generic -- equivalent to "guru" -- in
> >> the Boston Globe yesterday:
> >>
> >> I am drawn to Prohibition, as I am to all catastrophes, so I turn to
> >> Prohibition yoda Dan Okrent for enlightenment. Okrent is author of
> >> the forthcoming book "The Last Call: the Rise and Fall of
> >> Prohibition."
> >>
> >> --Sam Allis, Boston Globe, May 3, 2010, p. 23, G section
> >>
> >>
> http://www.boston.com/ae/events/articles/2010/05/03/remembering_the_dark_day
> >> s_during_the_nations_dry_times/
> >>
> >> ---Amy West
> >>
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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