Captured Same

Bill Palmer w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET
Mon May 17 16:41:19 UTC 2010

A related story...a US submarine captain in the Pacific, supposedly reported
a successful attack as "Sighted tanker, sank 'er", in admiration of Ens. (or
AMM1/c) Mason's message.

Bill Palmer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neal Whitman" <nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET>
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Captured Same

> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Neal Whitman <nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Captured Same
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the back story on "sank same". Now that I've had a good night's
> sleep (more or less), I've Googled "Yankee Doodle Mouse" and found that
> the
> phrasing was indeed more like the "sighted sub, sank same" brought up
> here.
> You can see in this video that what he actually wrote was "Sighted cat --
> sank same."
> Furthermore, Jonathan Lighter has also shed some light on another part of
> the cartoon. He wrote:
> "Another famous message from the same period was "SEND US MORE
> JAPS," attributed to the besieged garrison on Wake Island.  It supposedly
> showed spunk.  Released from a prison camp after the war, both Navy and
> Marine commanders at Wake denied they had ever authorized such a
> ridiculous
> message."
> At the end of the cartoon, Jerry sends a second communique: "Send more
> cats!"
> I was reminded of something else I should have done before posting, when I
> read Rick Barr's message. After quoting Brian Garner, he continues:
>> And here's the more latitudinarian MWEU:
>> bster's%20usage&pg=3DPA825#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse
> I was unable to open this link, but it reminded me that I should have
> checked MWDEU myself. For others who can't open the link, here's what it
> says:
> "The use of 'same' as a pronoun, often with 'the', has attracted criticism
> from many commentators, dating back to Vizetelly 1906. The use of 'same'
> as
> a substitute for 'it, this, that,' and 'them' is typically described as
> unliterary business jargon, if not as an out-and-out error. But a look at
> the long history and current use of the pronoun 'same' shows clearly that
> the judgment of the critics is undeservedly harsh. 'Same' has been in
> continuous use as a pronoun since the 14th century. It was well known to
> the
> Shakespearean businessman:
> [Shakespeare example]
> "But its use has never been limited to the world of business. Here are
> some
> further examples, old and new, to counter the dismissal of pronominal
> 'same'
> as mere jargon:
> [10 examples]
> "The pronoun 'same' may sound wooden in an awkwardly written business
> letter, but in the hands of a competent writer it is often simply a mark
> of
> an informal style."
> Neal
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society -


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