Vietnam

[Jonathan Lighter]

Victor, can you provide a link to that AP story? I can't seem to find it.

JL

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Vietnam
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > AP posted another clip, slightly earlier in the /same speech/, that
> identifies his
> service record correctly.
>
> This, of course, makes all the difference. Suddenly there's no story at
> all.
>
> The video and descriptions I've seen on CNN have all implied (by omission)
> that the "served in VN" remark was straightforward and never qualified in
> any way.
>
> What possible excuse can there be for this kind of "journalism"?
>
> JL
>
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
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> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: Vietnam
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Interspersed below:
> >
> > On 5/20/2010 1:24 PM, Bill Palmer wrote:
> > > There are numerous examples of individuals masquerading as  combat
> > veterans,
> > > war heroes, etc.
> > >
> >
> > In fact, Lindsey Graham, while campaigning for the Senate seat in 1998,
> > repeatedly and blatantly referred to himself as a "Gulf War veteran" in
> > speeches and interviews. While this may sound more ambiguous than the
> > single Blumenthal clip, the intent was quite obvious and damning. Graham
> > never left the East coast of the US during the Gulf War, even though he
> > did wear the uniform during that time. Graham was elected and is still
> > in the Senate. And Dick Cheney asked for five deferments before deciding
> > that he did not even need to ask any more--and he went on to serve as a
> > Defense Secretary and a Vice President.
> >
> > We've also had at least two now-former presidents making an issue of
> > their "service". In George W. Bush's case, the "service" was laughable.
> > In Reagan's case, it was non-existent.
> >
> > > Isn't it obvious that Blumenthal is trading on the sacrifices of
> others?
> > Is
> > > it possible that he could have just made an honest misstatement
> crediting
> > > himself with combat duty, when actually he could have avoided such a
> > > misrepresentation by not speaking extemporaneously?  Why bend over
> > backwards
> > > to find some circumstance which allows the possibility that he's not a
> > liar.
> > >
> > > This thing walks like a duck and talks like a duck.
> >
> > I guess, the whole point is that it /isn't/ obvious. I raised the issue
> > initially not to defend Blumenthal but to understand if there was any
> > linguistic evidence to support his claim, simply trying to understand
> > the issue. Following the discussion here, I am convinced that there is
> > no evidence of any kind of ambiguity in what he said--"in Vietnam" does
> > not have a secondary meaning, no matter how much anyone tries to spin
> > it. Since I have no direct experience or expertise in the area, I was
> > trying not to prejudge either the story or its target.
> >
> > However, there is exactly zero evidence beyond this single incident that
> > suggests that he was deliberately trying to mislead the audience
> > concerning his record. Other alleged citations are suggestive /only/ if
> > you are looking for this interpretation already. In ordinary reading,
> > they are perfectly consistent with his actual record--a point I did try
> > to make when I first posted it.
> >
> > But, more importantly, there is obvious doubt about intent /in the same
> > speech/. Unlike NYT, which appears to have uncritically adopted the
> > claim from one of the opposing campaigns, within 24 hours, AP posted
> > another clip, slightly earlier in the /same speech/, that identifies his
> > service record correctly. If anything, Ron undersold this point--not
> > only did Blumenthal correctly explained his service record, but he did
> > so in the very same speech that is now being claimed as evidence of his
> > attempt to mislead.
> >
> > I suppose, I should have known the risk of turning this into a political
> > discussion when I brought it up. But I tried to focus on the main point
> > and it was a question of language. But now that we started talking about
> > ducks, it seems necessary to point out another datum: Blumenthal had one
> > of the highest statewide favorability rating of any politician in the
> > country at the time he made the statement. There was no objective reason
> > for him to inflate his record. One has to be monstrously stupid to
> > deliberately risk his 78% approval rating to get it up to maybe 80%,
> > when anything over 60% is close to a guarantee of election victory. If
> > Blumenthal were this stupid would he not repeat the claim more than
> once??
> >
> > Sometimes, when it looks like a duck, it's merely a head of a
> > platypus--or, perhaps, even a wooden decoy. The NYT story appears to be
> > only slightly more legitimate than the one sold to Dan Rather. Sure,
> > they could have posed the question concerning Blumenthal's potential fib
> > without risking their reputation. But to do so without giving a full
> > account of even the one supposedly controversial speech is journalistic
> > malpractice. NYT has become the paper of spotty record.
> >
> >     VS-)
> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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