Vietnam

[Bill Palmer]

A fair point, Ron.

I went back to YouTube and listened again to the piece.  If one word in his
offending phrase is changed, the whole problem goes away. He said "...when I
served in Vietnam".
Change the "in" to "during" and there's no issue.

BP
----- Original Message -----
From: "ronbutters" <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Vietnam


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       ronbutters <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Vietnam
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Well, no, it seems pretty clear that Blumenthal was not and is not
> "tradin=
> g on the sacrifices of others."=A0Obviously, there are people who set out=
> to do so, for a wide variety of reasons. There are also politicians and=
> ideologues and journalists who want to make a name for themselves in "inv=
> estigative" reporting who have agendas that allow them to profit by
> creati=
> ng images of ducks out of finger shadows. They are the real charlatans
> who=
> are trading on the sacrifices of others" by using really phony charges to=
> create outrage in those who did the sacrificing, their loved ones, and an=
> yone with a sense of the injustice that was done in this country to Viet=
> Nam veterans.
>
> If nothing else, does it not really make sense to ask oneself, "Why would=
> a politician set out to deliberately deceive the public about something=
> that was so obviously easily discoverable--especially since he himself ha=
> d made it clear in unequivocal public pronouncements that he was not a
> war=
> hero?" And "Why would someone who had served honorably in the Marines wis=
> h to discredit his fellow Marines by claiming that he had taken the same=
> risks that they had taken?"
>
> I have no connection whatever with Mr. Blumenthal. I have little
> understan=
> ding for what he stands for politically. But I do have a strong distaste=
> for the sort of gotcha-bashing that goes on in politics and journalism,=
> and it seems patently clear that that is what is going on here.
>
> On May 20, 2010, at 1:24:31 PM, "Bill Palmer" <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>=
> wrote:
>
> From:   "Bill Palmer" <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
> Subject:    Re: [ADS-L] Vietnam
> Date:   May 20, 2010 1:24:31 PM EDT
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> There are numerous examples of individuals masquerading as combat
> veterans=
> ,
> war heroes, etc. In fact, it happened in North Carolina earlier this
> month=
> ,
> when some pathetic individual living near Camp Lejeune went around
> speakin=
> g
> to veterans' groups claiming credit for having won 2 Navy Crosses, 8
> purpl=
> e
> hearts, and gone from PFC to bird colonel in 8 years (truly impossible,
> an=
> d
> the vets groups should have known that). One supposes there are many
> reasons anyone might do this, and it seems certain that a politician who=
> has
> served his country in combat (or is thought to have) is sure to earn some
> votes from those who respect that kind of experience.
>
> Isn't it obvious that Blumenthal is trading on the sacrifices of others?=
> Is
> it possible that he could have just made an honest misstatement crediting
> himself with combat duty, when actually he could have avoided such a
> misrepresentation by not speaking extemporaneously? Why bend over
> backward=
> s
> to find some circumstance which allows the possibility that he's not a
> lia=
> r.
>
> This thing walks like a duck and talks like a duck.
>
> Bill P
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Vietnam
>
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: ronbutters at AOL.COM
>> Subject: Re: Vietnam
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -------
>>
>> The dfference between saying "when I was in Viet Nam" and "When I taught=
> "
>> at Harvard" is so great that the comparison is useless. There was no
>> "Harvard Era" in American History.
>>
>> A more apt comparison would be "when I taught at the University of
>> Tennessee" (which JL may have done) and "when I was a professor at U of=
> T"
>> (which JL may well technically not have been). It is not hard to imagine
>> someone saying the latter several times over the course of several years=
> ,
>> though some might find it misleading and even duplicitous if isolated fr=
> om
>> context and reported en masse.
>>
>> JL seems to think that all politicans' speeches are carefully crafted an=
> d
>> (apparently) memorized and read to audiences word for word This is just
>> not true. Mr. Blumenthal's putatively offending comments appear to have
>> been presented off the cuff in extemporaneous contexts.
>>
>> Reading the most despicable motives into a politician's every word is a
>> favorite "gotcha" trick of political and ideological opponents of every
>> stripe, but linguists should know better.
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:33:00
>> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Subject: [ADS-L] Vietnam
>>
>> AFAIK, most members of the armed forces during the Vietnam War who were
>> not
>> actually in Southeast Asia (or on Guam in the case of B-52 crews) were
>> either eager to be sent or else thanking their lucky stars it wasn't
>> happening. Either way, the fact that one *wasn't* in Vietnam was a
>> salient
>> reality.
>>
>> For a politician who is only a Vietnam era veteran to say, in a campaign
>> speech, as a simple, unnoticed slip of the tongue, "when I served in
>> Vietnam" seems to me about as likely as my saying, "when I taught at
>> Harvard." And then not noticing or caring that I said it.
>>
>> My skepticism only grows when I read the reports, accurate or not, that
>> Mr.
>> Blumenthal had received a number of draft deferments before enlisting in
>> the
>> Reserves (the units universally perceived as least likely to be sent to
>> Vietnam).
>>
>> Ron seems to assume that political addresses by professional politicians
>> just naturally follow the dynamics of unrehearsed, even inattentive,
>> discourse. I believe that assumption is unwarranted. I expect I'd have=
> to
>> be
>> semicomatose before I'd say, "when I taught at Harvard" and not notice=
> it.
>>
>> The record shows that Mr. Blumenthal has never tried to "palm himself of=
> f
>> as
>> a war hero." Quite the contrary. On occasion, however, he seems to have
>> been ready to allow people to draw that erroneous conclusion. How sleazy
>> or
>> decisive that may be is a matter for individual judgment.
>>
>> JL
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2885 - Release Date: 05/20/10
> 06:26:00
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2885 - Release Date: 05/20/10
06:26:00

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org