the big tsimmis

[Joel S. Berson]

My interpretation, from listening to NYCity 1st
generation relatives of the preceding generation
to mine in the mid-1900s, is something between
"big mess" and "big stir, much ado".  But I have
no insight into etymology.  Surely Leo Rosten or daughter has said something.

Joel

At 11/29/2010 03:54 PM, victor steinbok wrote:
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
>Here's one exchange from WordReference.com:
>
>http://goo.gl/j13Dd
>
>Q:
> > What might the word 'tsimmis' mean?
> > '...And besides, who am I hurting?! In a year
> I'll buy back the bonds... So, a big tsimmis!'
>
>A1:
> > Tsimmis — a fuss, a disturbance. "Don't make a big tsimmis!"
> > This is a Yiddish (Jewish slang) word.
>
>A2:
> > I've always seen it spelled "tzimmis." As Her
> Majesty says, it means a "big deal," "a big to-do."
> > It's also a great sweet-savory side dish (or main dish with brisket)!
>
>So, apparently, the "trouble" meaning even comes first for some users,
>with the food gloss actually falling under "also". I suppose, the real
>question is what came first as Google translates "Big Deal!" as
>"tsimmes" (well, in proper script--צימעס). So is "tsimmes" stew so
>named because it is a big fuss, big production, or did it go the other
>way and started with the food (not likely this particular food, but
>still related, no doubt). Note that in reverse translation Google only
>gives several stew meanings for "noun" and "big deal" as an
>interjection (which suggests the food-->trouble direction rather than
>vice versa--but what does Google know!).
>
>http://goo.gl/XgR5S
> > Then he made a big tsimmes out of demanding
> that Israel freeze settlement building.
>
>Interestingly, the "trouble/big deal" use persists in a variety of
>venues. One Stanford project goes by the acronym TSIMMIS==The Stanford
>IBM Manager of Multiple Information Sources" (a reference to a
>generalized "browser") (here http://goo.gl/es5Gx -- particularly
>http://goo.gl/5RCQt).
>
>There is Google support for LH's distinction--the phrase "in the
>tsimmes", which I would have expected to be a parallel formation to
>"in the soup", "in the stew" or "haggis in the fire" (think, Star
>Trek!), only shows up in two contexts--food, usually a recommendation
>not put nuts in the tsimmes ;-) --or in reference to the TSIMMIS
>system (and I searched for both spellings). "Big Tsimm()s" gets a lot
>more hits and most are of the "trouble" variety.
>
>Also there is obvious usage where "ts()r()s" would not work.
>
>http://goo.gl/bNvzE
> > Now there is a great tsimmis over new and
> more invasive airport security measures.
>
>The closest word I can think of substituting here is "hubbub", but
>certainly /not/ "ts()r()s".
>
>Note that OED has both "tsores" and "tsimmes" (with "tsuris",
>"tsimmas" as variants, although "tsimmis" can be found in examples).
>"Tsores" is dated back to 1901, "tsimmes" in the food sense to 1892.
>This is the earliest /other/ tsimmes:
>
> > 1925 S. RAPHAELSON Jazz Singer 125 Brother
> Levy, I am the chairman of the Executive
> Committee. Make yourself a tsimmes from it... All right all right.
>
>VS-)
>
>On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> >
> >>
> > I've always heard "tsuris" used as a mass noun, while
> > "tsimmes"/"tsimmis" is a count noun, and I take the meanings to be
> > roughly 'trouble' and 'mess' respectively (while also recognizing
> > that the latter is literally the term for the stew you mention).  You
> > can make a tsimmis (either literally or figuratively) or you can be
> > in tsuris, but not vice versa. YMMV.  Mark?
> >
> > LH
>
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