The [1749 Cleland "freak out"] and friends

Sun Oct 3 18:00:21 UTC 2010

Jon, I think there are two questions:

(1)  Do the Cleland quotation and the 1852 "I accordingly waited
until he had his freak out, when I found that he became more placid
in his temper" both pertain to an intense emotional experience, and
this belong more with the noun "freak-out" than with "to have a freak
out" = "conclude something"?

I agree that the break-out of freak-out and freak in the 1960s has
much more aura and body, but if the 1749 and 1852 quotations
generally fit there then aren't they possible evidence for a
low-flying continuity?

(2)  Are the other two "had his/her freak out" quotations, 1837 and
1840, useful additions to the I-believe zero OED quotations for the
"conclude something" sense together with "freak"?

Joel

At 10/3/2010 01:09 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>  Joel is undoubtedly correct.
>
>"Freak-out" (n.) and to "freak out" (v.) emerged suddenly into media culture
>ca1966 from the psychedelic hippie subculture.  The evidence for this is as
>clear as it can be. Both terms were staples in period reporting on the use
>of hallucinogens.  My queries among hippies and non-hippies ca1970-75 found
>nobody who would even tentatively date either noun or verb to the
>period before ca1965. HDAS adduces a somewhat surprising cite of the
>transitive verb from Lenny Bruce dated by a secondary source to 1964. (Bruce
>died of a heroin overdose in August, 1966; I now suspect that the actual
>date of the citation may have been 1965-66.)  The earliest writers qtd. in
>HDAS were all familiar with the recreational-drug subculture which became
>more newsworthy than ever ca1964-65 with the introduction of LSD.
>
>To "freak out" (intrans.) was defined in the media specifically as meaning
>to have a "bad trip" on LSD that resulted in panic or bizarre behavior. Even
>among hippies themselves, partakers of LSD or mescaline were advised to have
>a sober friend on hand to help them in case of a freak-out.
>
>The noun seemed to come directly from the verb. The verb soon came into wide
>use in the extended sense of "to panic; fly into a rage; lose emotional
>control; be astonished, etc." The noun was similarly used ("an instance of
>..."), though less often.  The general spread of both idioms appears to have
>been from drug users to high-school and college students to the middle
>class.
>
>There is no real possibility that either the current noun or verb existed in
>their 1960s senses in the 18th C.   In forty years of research I have never
>encountered the phrase to "have one's freak out" in American English - and,
>FWIW, not very often in British English either.
>
>The modern idioms are unrelated to Cleland's "freak" in the sense of  a
>"whim."
>
>See HDAS I for much more on "freak (out)."
>
>JL
>
>
>
>On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      The [1749 Cleland "freak out"] and friends
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > A correspondent on another list has come up with several instances of
> > "freak out" between 1836 and 1916 (and says there are one or two
> > others), and we are uncertain whether they belong in:
> >
> > (1)  "freak-out" = "An intense emotional experience", for which there
> > is a [1749] quotation from Cleland and then 1966; or
> > (2)  "to have a freak out" = to bring a caprice, a caper to a
> > conclusion", for which I find no citations in the OED.
> >
> > The first two of the quotations my correspondent cites below probably
> > better fit the "freak" + "to have out" (to bring to a conclusion) of
> > the OED analysis than they do the noun "freak-out".  Viz. the OED:
> >      " Quot. 1749, an isolated use, is better analysed as a use of
> > the n. freak (sense 3) plus the verbal phr. to have out 'to bring to
> > a conclusion' (cf. OUT adv. 7b)."
> >
> > "freak n[1]" sense 3 is "A capricious prank or trick, a caper."  Thus:
> >
> > "But our hero had now had his freak out, and was anxious to return to
> > the  service and secure his promotion." is "But our hero had now
> > *brought his escapade to an end*"
> >
> > And "But now that the lady yon mention has had her freak out, and
> > finds her grand project frustrated," is "But now that the lady yon
> > mention has *concluded her efforts*.
> >
> > But the following from 1852 does seem to fit with "freak-out" = "An
> > intense emotional experience", and with the Cleland quote:
> >
> > "I accordingly waited until he had his freak out, when I found that
> > he became more placid in his temper,"
> >
> > "Freak n[1] sense 1 is "A sudden causeless change or turn of the
> > mind; a capricious humour, notion, whim, or vagary."
> >
> > Thus this quote likely is "I accordingly waited until *his excessive
> > emotion was over*.
> >
> > However, I think that in "a photograph of a drunken, boyish group
> > taken in a drunken, boyish freak out of which his own face laughed
> > fatuously up into mine," the "out of which" is a reference to the
> > photograph, and is not "a drunken, boyish freak out."  Imagine a
> > comma omitted after "freak".
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > At 10/3/2010 03:34 AM, Jim Chevallier wrote:
> > >In a message dated 10/2/2010 6:41:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> > >Berson at ATT.NET writes:[referring to the 1749 Cleland quote]
> > > >"An isolated use," rather.  The next  quotation is 1966 (right on, Jim).
> > >
> > >Well, not quite:
> > >
> > >"But our hero had now had his freak out, and was anxious to return to the
> > >service and secure his promotion."
> > >
> > >_
> > http://books.google.com/books?pg=RA1-PA75&dq=%22freak+out%22&ei=YC-oTKelMIe
> >
> > >asAPQ2O2bDQ&ct=result&id=n1gMAAAAYAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22freak%20out%
> 22&f=false_
> > >
> > >(http://books.google.com/books?pg=RA1-PA75&dq=
> >
> "freak+out"&ei=YC-oTKelMIeasAPQ2O2bDQ&ct=result&id=n1gMAAAAYAAJ#v=onepage&q="freak%20out"&f=false)
> > >
> > >
> > >Gentleman Jack: a naval story
> > >By William Johnson Neale
> > >1837
> > >
> > >"But now that the lady yon mention has had her freak out, and finds her
> > >grand project frustrated, "
> > >Tait's Edinburgh magazine
> > >By William Tait, Christian Isobel  Johnstone
> > >1840
> > >_
> > http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA656&dq=%22freak+out%22&ei=YC-oTKelMIeasA
> > >PQ2O2bDQ&ct=result&id=AkMFAAAAQAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22freak%20out%22&f=false_
> > >(http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA656&dq=
> > "freak+out"&ei=YC-oTKelMIeasAPQ2O2b
> > >DQ&ct=result&id=AkMFAAAAQAAJ#v=onepage&q="freak%20out"&f=false)
> > >
> > >
> > >"I accordingly waited until he had his freak out, when I found that he
> > >became more placid in his temper,"
> > >The Squanders of castle Squander,  Volumes 1-2
> > >By William Carleton
> > >1852
> > >_
> > http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA85&dq=%22freak+out%22&ei=YC-oTKelMIeasAP
> > >Q2O2bDQ&ct=result&id=BrcBAAAAQAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22freak%20out%22&f=false_
> > >(http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA85&dq=
> > "freak+out"&ei=YC-oTKelMIeasAPQ2O2bDQ
> > >&ct=result&id=BrcBAAAAQAAJ#v=onepage&q="freak%20out"&f=false)
> > >
> > >
> > >"a photograph of a drunken, boyish group taken in a drunken, boyish freak
> > >out of which his own face laughed fatuously up into mine. "
> > >The beloved son, Fanny Kemble Johnson
> > >1916
> > >_
> > http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA172&dq=%22freak+out%22&ei=YC-oTKelMIeasA
> > >PQ2O2bDQ&ct=result&id=UmEeAAAAMAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22freak%20out%22&f=false_
> > >(http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA172&dq=
> > "freak+out"&ei=YC-oTKelMIeasAPQ2O2b
> > >DQ&ct=result&id=UmEeAAAAMAAJ#v=onepage&q="freak%20out"&f=false)
> > >
> > >
> > >There's one or two others. It seems like the term has had slightly varying
> > >meaning over several centuries.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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