ont/ahnt
Laurence Horn
laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Thu Oct 7 02:50:35 UTC 2010
At 9:47 PM -0400 10/6/10, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>Those are good exx., Larry. Now I can write that poem.
>
>JL
Right; three is enough for a limerick. The content may have to be a
bit forced, though...
LH
>
>On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> At 9:11 PM -0400 10/6/10, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> >Hog rhymes with frog and log. It has [ a:] as in gaga.
>> >
>> >Dog doesn't rhyme with anything I can think of offhand. It has [D: ] as in
>> >"chalk").
>>
>> Ditto for me, essentially, but it *could* rhyme with other words. In
>> fact it rhymes with "blawg" (a law-based blog, with supposedly 3.95
>> million g-hits; not to be confused with "blog" itself, which of
>> course rhymes with "frog" and "log") and with "Smaug" (Tolkien's
>> dragon, which doesn't rhyme with "smog"), although I concede that
>> those are spelling pronunciations, since neither comes up much in
>> ordinary conversation.
>>
>> LH
>>
>> >
>> >On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at wmich.edu
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> -----------------------
>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> Poster: Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>> >> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Dear Jonathan,
>> >> That's my pattern too. My wife makes fun of my pronunciation of both
>> dog
>> >> and hog, (She has [D]).
>> >>
>> >> Paul Johnston
>> >> On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> -----------------------
>> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> >> > Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > Father and bother rhyme perfectly for me.
>> >> >
>> >> > Dog and hog don't. At all.
>> >> >
>> >> > JL
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Paul Johnston <
>> paul.johnston at wmich.edu
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> >> -----------------------
>> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >> Poster: Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "CON"/"KAHN" would work as [kDn]/[kAn] in the Pittsburgh area, I
>> think,
>> >> and
>> >> >> neither would rhyme with "town", which would be [tan]. I just
>> checked
>> >> with
>> >> >> two colleagues of mine, one from Canonsburg, PA, the other from
>> >> Fairmont,
>> >> >> WV, and they had different vowels in father and bother (a
> > near-minimal
>> >> pair)
>> >> >> as [A] vs. [D] (rounded low vowel). The latter is LOT/THOUGHT for
>> them.
>> >> >> The former is, in Wells's terminology, PALM.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Paul Johnston
>> >> >> On Oct 6, 2010, at 6:17 PM, David Wake wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> >> -----------------------
>> >> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >>> Poster: David Wake <dwake at STANFORDALUMNI.ORG>
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Can you offer a minimal pairs for these dialects? E.g.
> > "con"/"Kahn",
>> >> >>> perhaps? I thought that, with the exception of Eastern New
>> England,
>> >> >>> these dialects would all use their LOT vowel (rounded or unrounded)
>> >> >>> for both lexical sets.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> D
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Paul Johnston <
>> >> paul.johnston at wmich.edu>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> >> -----------------------
>> >> >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >>>> Poster: Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Most dialects where the LOT class is a low back ROUNDED vowel will
>> >> >> pronounce ont and ahnt differently, particularly because of the /n/
>> >> after
>> >> >> it-- Eastern New England, the area from Erie PA through Pittsburgh
>> down
>> >> into
>> > > >> West Virginia and into Kentucky, several Upper Southern dialects,
>> >> Canada--in
>> >> >> Eastern New England, the difference should be really striking: [D]
>> (I
>> >> mean
>> >> >> the IPA symbol for a low back rounded vowel here) vs. a front [a:].
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Paul Johnston
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Oct 6, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> >> -----------------------
>> >> >>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >>>>> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> At 10/5/2010 08:49 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:45 PM, David Wake <
>> >> dwake at stanfordalumni.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>> "ont"
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> In most dialects of AmE, "ont" = "ahnt."
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Can you give me some examples where it doesn't? And please don't
>> say
>> >> >>>>> you won't.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Joel
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> >> truth."
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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