Chile

Thu Oct 7 14:14:44 UTC 2010

At 9:59 AM -0400 10/7/10, Bill Palmer wrote:
>Am I remembering correctly from English 102 in 1959 that Byron intended "Don
>Juan" to be pronounced with a palatal "J" i.e.,  "Don JOO- un",
>
>Bill Palmer

Yes, it doesn't scan or rhyme otherwise.

LH

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jonathan Lighter" <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>Subject: Re: Chile
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail
>>header -----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>Subject:      Re: Chile
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>My whole seventh-grade class was told by a junior high English teacher
>>that
>>the "correct pronunciation" was indeed / kwIksot /.
>>
>>Nobody could believe it, especially since he himself always said /kihoti/,
>>with the apology that he "knew it was wrong" but couldn't shake the habit.
>>
>>He let us say it too, but since then I've felt guilty about it.
>>
>>Number of other humans I've heard say /kwIksot/ since 1959:   0.
>>
>>
>>JL
>>
>>On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wr=
>>ote:
>>
>>>I cannot remember a time when the usual pronunciation among people I
>>>hear=
>>d
>>>using the phrase (99.9% of them media people) was *not* "koo de grah."
>>>
>>>So it's been around - speaking conservatively - for at least thirty-five
>>>years, and in the most prestigious U.S. circles. (But perhaps the "blow
>>>o=
>>f
>>>fat" is what they meant.)
>>>
>>>JL
>>>
>>>   On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 7:49 AM, David A. Daniel
>>><dad at pokerwiz.com>wrote=
>>:
>>>
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>Poster:       "David A. Daniel" <dad at POKERWIZ.COM>
>>>>Subject:      Re: Chile
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>-------
>>>>
>>>>I posted on this earlier this year. Chile was Chilly in the USA until
>>>>sometime in the 80's when there was a surge of hypercorrect
>>>>pronunciatio=
>>n
>>>>of
>>>>Spanish, at which time it became Chee-lay and the folks became
>>>>Chee-LAY-uns
>>>>instead of just Chillyuns. This culminated in 1990 with a hilarious skit
>>>>by
>>>>Jimmy Smits on SNL making fun of the whole over-pronunciation mania. It
>>>>wasn=92t just Chile, of course, it was anything Spanish that happened to
>>>>come
>>>>up. The Smits skit tackled such things as En-shee-LAH-Thah and
>>>>Burrrrrrr-EE-Tho as well.
>>>>
>>>>Another foreign-language hypercorrection that I have watched become
>>>>popular
>>>>over the last 10 or 20 years or so is the substitution of Coup de Grace
>>>>(pronounced Grahss), which is the strike/blow of mercy, with Coup de
>>>>Gra=
>>s
>>>>(pronounced Grah) which of course is the Strike/Blow of Fat. I used to
>>>>hear
>>>>Coup de Grah occasionally, but now seem to hear it almost exclusively.
>>>>Apparently Americans think no French word ever has an ss sound on the
>>>>en=
>>d.
>>>>The Coup de Gras always gives me interesting mental images.
>>>>DAD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
>>>>Of
>>>>Paul Frank
>>>>Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 12:39 AM
>>>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>Subject: Re: Chile
>>>>
>>>>:      Re: Chile
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>----
>>>>---
>>>>
>>>>As a native speaker of Chilean Spanish, this is something to which
>>>>I've paid close attention since my family left Chile a few terrifying
>>>>weeks after September 11 (1973, not 2001). In the 1980s, most
>>>>Americans I heard pronounce the word Chilean said "ChilAYan"; most
>>>>Brits said "Chillyin" (to borrow your spellings). I was living in the
>>>>UK and in East Asia at the time and hanging out with Brits and
>>>>Americans (and Chileans too). In the 1990s I began to notice ChilAYan
>>>>from British mouths, including BBC presenters. I'm less sure about
>>>>"Chilly" and "Chee Lay." I've always said "Chee Lay" or even "Chile"
>>>>(pronounced the Spanish way). Incidentally, one of my pet peeves in
>>>>the 1980s was the affected pronunciation in the middle of English
>>>>sentences of "Nicaragua" and "El Salvador" as if they were Spanish
>>>>words rather than perfectly good English words that ought to be
>>>>pronounced the English (or American) way. You sometimes hear this on
>>>>NPR: an American speaker pauses for a millisecond to pronounce some
>>>>Spanish place name or personal name as if she or he were speaking
>>>>Spanish. But I digress...
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Paul
>>>>
>>>>Paul Frank
>>>>Translator
>>>>German, French, Italian > English
>>>>Neuch=E2tel, Switzerland
>>>>Tel. +41 77 4096132
>>>>paulfrank at post.harvard.edu
>>>>paul.frank at bfs.admin.ch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 3:21 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>>>><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com=
>>>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Back in my day (1950s), "Chile" was pronounced like "Chilly."
>>>>>
>>>>>  "Chilean" was pronounced as "chillyin." But since then "ChilAYan" has
>>>>become
>>>>>  the media standard because it sounds more Spanishy. Sort of.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Similarly "Chilly" has become the media "Chee Lay" because it sounds
>>>>more
>>>>>  Spanishy.
>>>>>
>>>>>  However, today I heard Tony Harris on CNN utter a new pronunciation
>>>>>  th=
>>at
>>>>  > sounds like an American trying to sound Spanishy no matter what:
>>>>"ChillAY."
>>>>>
>>>>>  Like _Ole_!
>>>>>
>>>>>  JL
>>>>>  --
>>>>>  "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>>truth."
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>  "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>truth."
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--=20
>>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>truth."
>>
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