grue and bleen

[Jonathan Lighter]

Yeah, but it was supposed to be grue and bleen.  Also he'd had a lot to
drink.

JL

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: grue and bleen
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Very nice and prompt, Jon.  This critic can only carp:
>
> Was Gen. Grant drinking his grog in Boston on St. Patrick's Day?
>
> And don't we want "the blue and the *gray*"?  That is, grue and
> *blay*?  Oh, that would spoil the rhyme ... wait ... the editor in me
> applies his red pencil:
>
> Ulysses S. Grant was once gay
> Drinking rum with an attitude fey.
> Then he tipsily said,
> With a nod of his head,
> "It's a war of the grue and the blay."
>
> (Also changing the drink of his choice from the seafarers' favorite
> to one popular with American landlubbers of former centuries.)
>
> Joel
>
> At 10/19/2010 07:59 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >Ulysses S. Grant was once seen
> >Drinking grog with an appetite keen.
> >Then he tipsily said,
> >With a nod of his head,
> >"It's a war of the grue and the bleen."
> >
> >JL
> >On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > Subject:      Re: grue and bleen
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > At 10/19/2010 10:25 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> > > >At 9:49 AM -0400 10/19/10, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> > > >>In my personal experience, something is grue if I call it "green" and
> > > >>a particular acquaintance, no names being used, calls it "blue"; and
> > > >>is bleen if I call it "blue" and that same unnamed acquaintance calls
> > > >>it "green".
> > > >>
> > > >>Joel
> > > >
> > > >OK, sounds good; now you just need someone to write a poem on your
> > > >practice and publish (or at least web-post) it.  The rest of us will
> > > >be grue with envy--or bleen, depending on the time of day.
> > > >
> > > >LH
> > >
> > > Thinking back to his limerick on "dog", I'll ask Jon.
> > >
> > > P.S.  I later thought, my experience too can be described in terms of
> > > times: T1, T2, T3, ... .  I say one color at T1.  My acquaintance
> > > contradicts me at T2.  I insist on my color at T3. ... .
> > >
> > > Joel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >>At 10/18/2010 09:57 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> > > >>>Well, there's a "grue" I'm familiar with, but it's not the one
> hiding
> > > >>>in "gruesome".  In a classic paper or book (I forget which, since I
> > > >>>didn't read it, but just recall the cite) on induction, the mid-20th
> > > >>>century philosopher of Nelson Goodman proposes "grue" as the label
> > > >>>for a color of objects that are green when seen before noon (or
> > > >>>whenever) and blue when seen after it.  (As opposed to "bleen",
> which
> > > >>>has the opposite property but didn't catch on to the same extent.)
> > > >>>The puzzle had to do with why we assume objects that look green are
> > > >>>green rather than grue.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Let's see if I can google it up...  Yup, and even with a somewhat
> > > >>>less than immortal ode to the color "grue":
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Nelson Goodman seems quite keen
> > > >>>Induction yet to show anew
> > > >>>Is somewhat sick as will be seen
> > > >>>And may not be completely true.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Is this leaf a lovely green?
> > > >>>Or is it rather colored grue?
> > > >>>Is the sky above quite bleen?
> > > >>>Or am I right in seeing blue?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>I really don't care to be mean
> > > >>>And have no wish to Goodman skew;
> > > >>>But childish puzzles can demean;
> > > >>>Has he nothing else to do??
> > > >>>-JSH, "On 'The New Riddle of Induction'"
> > > >>>http://www.massline.org/philosdog/G/Goodman.htm
> > > >>
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> >
> >--
> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
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