shagging & fucking

Sat Sep 4 19:53:00 UTC 2010

George, I gotta say, I am right with ya. Probably 90% of the subjects posted
here, I have a quick look and delete, then go on deleting the rest of the
thread. But the 10% that interest me (or that I know something about) I
follow assiduously. And I guaran-shagging-tee you I have not missed one post
in the shagging & fucking thread. Am paying close attention, and have
learned a great deal, principally about 17th century English men and their
relationship to rectums, about which I had been ignorant. This has
definitely been one of the more enlightening threads of the last few years.
DAD

-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
George Thompson
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 2:12 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: shagging & fucking

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Jesse Sheidlower: > Thanks, George, for this terrific find.

You and the OED are welcome.  I am always happy to advance scabrous
knowledge.  I have never lost the fascination with dirty words I felt when I
was 15 -- it is called, I believe, staying young at heart.  My usual reading
matter -- NYC newspapers, 1801-1850 -- offer remarkably few dirty words, so
I must hope to find them elsewhere.

GAT

George A. Thompson
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ.
Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>
Date: Friday, September 3, 2010 3:17 pm
Subject: Re: shagging & fucking
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

> Thanks, George, for this terrific find. The transitive and
> intransitive _fuck_s in this letter are, sadly, not necessary
> for OED, but the use of _fucking_ n. does indeed fill a large
> gap.
>
> _Shagging_ is used as a noun here, so while it doesn't
> antedate the 1788 verb (although we now have a 1770 example of
> the verb), it does constitute a whopping 198-year antedating
> of _shagging_ n. in OED2.
>
> Jesse Sheidlower
> OED
>
> On Wed, Sep 01, 2010 at 10:05:23PM -0400, George Thompson wrote:
> > A review in TLS of Classical Sculpture and the Culture of Collecting
> in Britain since 1760, by Viccy Coltman (OUP, 2009) mentioned a
> "libertine" letter quoted in it, in terms that sent me scampering to
> the library.
> >
> > The letter is dated February, 1772, from Richard Cosway, a painter,
> to Charles Townley, his patron,( and, it seems, his intimate friend,)
> and is found on pp. 181-82.
> > Extracts:
> > *** Oliver has been in Town a month -- fuck'd himself dry, &
> returned to Bath to recomit *** the Duke of Cumberland married, & the
> Princess Dowager dead -- so wags the world -- with respect to shagging
> -- it is much the same as when you left us (your part omitted) but as
> for myself I stick as close to Radicati's Arse as a Bum Bailiff to
> Lord Deloraine's -- Italy for ever I say if the Italian Woman fuck as
> well in Italy as they do here, you must be happy indeed -- I am such a
> Zealot for them, that I be damned if I ever fuck an English woman
> again (if I can help it) ***  a Clergyman has just publish'd a
> treatise on fucking under the title of the Joys of Hymen ***
> >
> > OED, "shag", verb, #3 1. trans. and intr. To copulate (with).
> > 1788 GROSE Dict. Vulgar Tongue (ed. 2), Shag, to copulate. 1879-80
> Pearl (1970) 258 A fellow who's had the mishap, To forget, when he
> shagged her, to button his flap. 1958 N. LEVINE Canada made Me iv. 102
> You know what they're talking about? If they got shagged last night.
> 1969 J. WOOD Three Blind Mice iii. 32 We..go and shag ourselves
> half-stupid all night..and pay them for it in the morning! 1973 Nation
> Rev. (Melbourne) 24-30 Aug. 1417/4 The credo of the new fashioned
> mammy is if you shag, I shag. 1977 C. MCCULLOUGH Thorn Birds xvii. 413
> There are plenty of men who will shag anything if it's a virgin. 1980
> R. ADAMS Girl in Swing xxi. 279 'He's never absent.' And the corporal
> next to Jack muttered, 'Well, I 'ope 'e ain't 'angin' around when I'm
> shaggin' my missus.'
> > So this is a 16 year antedating.
> >
> > For "fucking", the OED has:
> > 1. The action of FUCK v. 1; sexual intercourse.
> >   Also as the second element in compounds; cf. also sport-fucking n.
> at SPORT n.1 Compounds 4a.
> > 1568 A. SCOTT Poems (1896) iv. 55 Thir foure, the suth to sane,
> Enforsis thame to fucking. 1571 in J. Cranstoun Satirical Poems
> Reformation (1891) I. 202 For quha wald not lauche..To se forett e
> holy frere his fukking so deploire? 1680 School of Venus I, in B. K.
> Mudge When Flesh becomes Word (2004) 11 When a man thrusts his Prick
> into a Womans Cunt, it is called Fucking,. But pray do'nt talk of such
> kind of thing before Company, for they will call you and immodest
> baudy Wench, and chide you for it. 1708 School of Love in Indictment
> (P.R.O.: KB 28/24) m. 9 My lovely Phil. is..as well vers'd in the
> various manners of ffucking and ffrigging, as the Captain of the
> virtuosa's. 1865 'PHILOCOMUS' Love Feast II. 11 Now the first time
> understood That fucking is the greatest good. ***
> > So this is not an antedating, but it falls in the middle of a 157
> year gap.
> >
> > For "fuck", verb, the OED's string of citations includes:
> > a1749 A. ROBERTSON Poems (?1751) 256 But she gave Proof that she
> could fk. 1784 PRINCE WILLIAM Let. 23 July in P. Ziegler King William
> IV (1971) iii. 51 Oh, for..the pretty girls of Westminster..such as
> would not clap or pox me every time I fucked. a1796 R. BURNS Merry
> Muses (1911) 71 You can fk where'er you please.
> > So there is already evidence that this word hadn't fallen into
> disuse in the 18th C.
> >
> > GAT
> >
> > George A. Thompson
> > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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