Q: "dame" in U.S. slang --1862, antedating 1902?

[Jonathan Lighter]

If I read the evidence correctly, "dames" before the 1890s or so tended
strongly to be more formidable than attractive. The point of Rodgers and
Hammerstein's song title "There is Nothing Like a Dame" (1949) might not
have been obvious to a speaker in 1862.  (Ditto for the hypothetical *"There
is Nothing like a Babe.")

JL

On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

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> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Q: "dame" in U.S. slang --1862, antedating 1902?
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 4/5/2011 07:45 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >IIRC, the U.S. slang use of "dame" developed smoothly and imperceptibly
> from
> >an earlier jocular use, common in 19th C. journalism.
> >
> >HDAS has many pre-1902 exx. The earliest dates from ca1700. It may or may
> >not be useful to draw a line between pretty evident slang use (E.g., the
> >modern proverb, "Dames!") and earlier, jocular standard, even literary,
> use.
>
> I think this is what my uncertainty is about -- where among the
> several senses to place my 1862 dame.
>
> >As far as I can tell, it became common in lowbrow dialogue only beginning
> >ca1890-1900 - a period when slang itself in lowbrow dialogue seems to have
> >become more common.
>
> If my quotation is "lowbrow" -- and it seems to have some element of
> lowbrow and satire -- it's earlier than those dates.
>
> Joel
>
> >JL
> >
> >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> >
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> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > Subject:      Q: "dame" in U.S. slang --1862, antedating 1902?
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Is the following an antedating of OED2's "dame" n., sense 2.c,. "A
> > > girl; a woman. Chiefly U.S. slang.", earliest quotation 1902?
> > >
> > > I trust it's not another possibility, 2.a, "humorously applied to an
> > > aged housewife", which -- lumped in with "The 'lady' of the house,
> > > the mistress of a household, a housewife", is dated from c1330.
> > > -----
> > > 1862 -- Barre [Massachusetts] Gazette; Date: 05-09-1862; Volume: 28;
> > > Issue: 42; Page: [1]; Col. 3.
> > >
> > > Let me kiss him for his mother---A secesh anecdote.---As the last of
> > > the rebel prisoners were entering the jail on Tuesday, a big mulatto
> > > fellow from a neighboring slaughter house, who was making his way
> > > through the crowd of spectators, was somewhat jostled in the
> > > undertaking. A lady present, with more age than wisdom ... rushed
> > > toward him with open arms ...
> > > ...
> > > The secesh dame struck a bee line toward the Washington monument amid
> > > the cry of bystanders ...
> > > Baltimore Clipper.
> > > -----
> > > Joel
>
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