"like pickles and ice cream"

[Mark Mandel]

Why do you call it a meme? Idiom, certainly; common phrase, yes; but isn't
this quite a stretch for "meme"?

m a m

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> To sum up:
>
> "Pickles and ice cream"/ "ice cream and pickles" was a meme by the late
> 1890s connoting "an indigestible food combination that children might eat
> foolishly."
>
> By 1960 the meme had generally come to refer humorously to "a strange
> and disagreeable craving commonly experienced by pregnant women."
>
> By 1990 "pickles and ice cream" had come, in addition, to stand jocularly
> for any two items that proverbially don't or proverbially do go together.
>
> BONUS "go together like peanut butter and jelly":
>
> GB offers this allegedly from 1959: "And conversely, nothing unlocks the
> secrets of the potato like meditating on the Psalms. These things go
> together like yin and yang, like Martha and Mary, like peanut butter and
> jelly."  The next "go together like peanut butter and jelly" isn't till
> (apparently) 1966, with very slow growth through the '70s and '80s and
> a startling increase in incidence since about 2000.
>
> JL
>
>
>
> JL
>
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      "like pickles and ice cream"
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The latest Progressive insurance commercial
> > http://www.progressive.com/commercials/unicorns.aspx has goofy, affable
> > Flo
> > telling a young couple that some insurance bundles "go together like
> peanut
> > butter and jelly!" Hubby says, "Like hamburgers and fries!" And pregnant
> > wifey says, "Like pickles and ice cream!" When Flo tries to top that with
> > "Like unicorns and glitter!" she falls flat. So "like pickles and ice
> > cream"
> > is supposed to be an unremarkable collocation.
> >
> >  Google turns up nearly 1,000 hits on "together like pickles and ice
> > cream,"
> > many or most of them ironic (i.e., they don't go together at all).
> >
> > According to a 1988 GB snippet:  "Diets and pregnancy seem to go together
> > like pickles and ice cream. 'A doctor knows from years and years of
> > frustrating experience just how much mothers tend to shovel in,' writes
> the
> > author of one popular birth and baby book." That may be the earliest p&ic
> > "go togther ex."
> >
> > Now for the mysteries.
> >
> > I first encountered this combination in the '50s as a humorous but
> typical
> > food craving of expectant moms.  This appears to be the nearly universal
> > interpretation today. However, a GB search reveals the pairing up of
> > "pickles and ice cream" as far back as the 1890s as a combination that
> may
> > be bad for children, or anyone, even if eaten simply at the same meal. A
> > 1903 ex., from a medical periodical, humorously connects the combination
> > with young, working-class women, but surely they're not all pregnant!  My
> > impression is that most early exx. imply litlle more than that children
> and
> > teenagers will gorge on pickles and ice cream (because they have no
> sense)
> > and then get sick.
> >
> >  A 1968 ex. refers to the craving during pregnancy as "time-honored," but
> > GB
> > reveals *nothing* relevant before 1967 in a search for "pickles and ice
> > cream" + "expecting" [or "expectant"/"pregnant"/"pregnancy"].  It does
> find
> > an unmistakable ex. of the less euphonious "ice cream and pickles" from
> > Doris Lessing in "1952" (though WorldCat suggests "1954").
> >
> > What we know: "pickles and ice cream" seems to have entered pop culture
> as
> > a
> > sign of pregnancy no earlier than the 1950s.
> >
> > What we don't know: Metaphorically, do "pickles and ice cream" go
> together
> > "like love and marriage" (GB: 1950s, also the time when, acc. to the
> song,
> > "Love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage").  Or do they
> "go
> > together" metaphorically only in an ironic sense?
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org