(across the) "block" ~= street, and the OED?

Fri Apr 29 17:39:46 UTC 2011

I would not reject "down the street" as possibly referring to some place on
the same block, but I'd be less likely to say it.

My impression is that in Knoxville people will almost always say "down [or
"up"] the road."  Blocks exist but, as in most cities, they are not usually
rectangular (more blocklike), as they so often are in NYC.  About the only
time "block" is used seems to be in phrases like "The 300 block."

"Street" here is far less commonly said than "road," even though there are a
couple of dozen officially numbered "streets."

But this may be turning into microdialectology.

JL

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

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> Subject:      Re: (across the) "block" ~= street, and the OED?
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Not quite for me, although I agree about "same block" vs. "same street".
>
> "Down the block" is less than one street (it's within the same areal
> block).  "Down the street" is indeterminate -- can be the same block
> or some number of crossings away.  "Down N blocks/N streets down"
> (which are the same) is N blocks away, even if N = 1.*  My dialect
> prefers "down N blocks" to "N streets down".
>
> But maybe YBID.  Although I would say the same in Manhattan.
>
> * The number of crossings may be one less than the number of
> blocks.  E.g., if I'm standing on the northwest corner of 57th and
> Fifth, the south side of 59th is still two blocks away (one
> crossing), as is the park (two crossings).
>
> Joel
>
> At 4/29/2011 12:14 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >Also in '50s Manhattan.
> >
> >JL
> >
> >On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
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> > > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: (across the) "block" ~= street, and the OED?
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > In my Brooklyn childhood, there was a key difference "block" and
> > > "street" -- block referred to a part of the street between two cross
> > > streets. If we live on the same street, we may not live on the same
> > > block. "Down the street" might be further away than "down the block".
> > >
> > > DanG
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> wrote:
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> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > > Subject:      Re: (across the) "block" ~= street, and the OED?
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > At 4/29/2011 08:48 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > >>Strangely, I can't recall whether it was possible to go "across the
> > > block"
> > > >>(i.e., straight across the street), but I doubt it. My ambivalence
> may
> > > >>reflect a childhood usage that I had to abandon as too advanced for
> > > society
> > > >>at that time.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what part of NYC you were a child in, Jon (if indeed you
> > > > were a child in NYC), but when I was a child there, there was too
> > > > much dangerous traffic to go across the block ...
> > > > unaccompanied.  (While that was in the Bronx, I don't think it was
> > > > Jennifer Lopez's block.)
> > > >
> > > > But seriously, I can imagine (but will not avow) having said "he
> > > > lives across the block from me" -- another usage that seems to make
> > > > "block" linear rather than planar.  As Wilson noted, "N blocks away"
> > > > is a line, whether straight, with angles, or curved, stretching N
> > > streets.
> > > >
> > > > And for "across the block" -- from Google --
> > > >
> > > > 1)  Stupid kids from across the block. Tire swing accident.  1 min -
> > > > Jun 16, 2010 - Youtube.
> > > >
> > > > 2)  Prototype 2 trailer throws a man across the block.  Mar 16, 2011
> > > > ... In this case, the trick is throwing a man so hard that he flies
> > > > across the block, hits a car, and then explodes in a massive
> shockwave of
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > 3)  little dude from across the streets friend from across the block
> > > > ...Facebook.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  From Google Books (Full view) --
> > > >
> > > > 1)  1864 [the earliest I saw] -- Journals of the Senate and Assembly
> > > > of the Fifteenth Session of the Legislature of the State of
> > > > California. Volume 2.  Sacramento: O. M. Clayes, State
> > > > Printer.  1864.  [Multiple documents, multiple paginations.]  In
> > > > "Reports and Proceedings of the Joint Committee of the Legislature to
> > > > Investigate the Destruction of the Battery of Guns, March 14, 1864"
> > > > (document 10).  Page [not 58 but] 59:
> > > >
> > > > "Answer.---I live on the southwest corner of Thirteenth and M
> > > > streets, fronting this building, across the block from it. When the
> > > > alarm was first given, was tending to my horses at the stables in the
> > > > roar of my house."
> > > >
> > > > [Probably "Fifth Session. Saturday, March 19 1[864]."]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2)  1884 -- Index to the Miscellaneous Documents of the House of
> > > > Representatives for the First Session of the Forty-Eighth Congress,
> > > > 1883-'84. In Forty Volumes.  Washington: Government Printing Office.
> > > > 1884.  [Multiple paginations.]  In "48th Congress, 1st
> > > > Session.  House of Representatives.  Mis. Doc., No. 59. Site for
> > > > Public Building in Brooklyn, N.Y. Testimony taken before the
> > > > Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds Relative to the purchase of
> > > > a site for a public building in Brooklyn, N.Y.  June 17,
> > > > 1884.---Ordered to be printed."  Page 155 [p. 550 in PDF]:
> > > >
> > > > ---A. No, sir; but they could get off at the proper place and walk
> > > > across the block.
> > > > Q. It is more than a block across there; it is about five blocks, is
> > > > it not?---A. Oh, hardly so much as that, I think.
> > > > Q. Do you know the distance:---A. Well, I do not think it is more
> > > > than two or three blocks.
> > > >
> > > > [Page 154 dates testimony "Brooklyn, N.Y., June 9, 1884."]
> > > >
> > > > "Distance" seems definitive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 3)  1914 --  Forty-Third Annual report of the Railroad and Warehouse
> > > > Commission of the State of Illinois for the Year Ending June 30,
> > > > 1913, Volume 2.  Springfield: Illinois State Journal Co. 1914. Volume
> > > > 43 - Page 236:
> > > >
> > > > "The practice of the people it appears from the record is to leave
> > > > Oak Street, go across the block between the elevators and between the
> > > > box cars across the side track and across the main track to the
> > > > depot, all of which is more or less ...  [spoiler alert] dangerous."
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > So the expression was in use in my youth.
> > > >
> > > > Joel
> > > >
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