We're all Keynesians now -- (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Mullins, Bill AMRDEC]

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

The analogy in the second link posted by Ben seems appropriate.

Suppose Angela Merkel came to America, on the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
We have a city called "New York", of which a resident is called a "New
Yorker".  There is also a magazine called "The New Yorker".  If she,
wanting to express solidarity with the citizens of New York, had said "I
am a New Yorker", it would be accurate to convey what she had said as "I
am a magazine."  But obviously she didn't mean that, and you've got to
be kind of a jerk/pedant to say that what she said should be interpreted
that way, even though that is what she said.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
Behalf Of
> Dan Goncharoff
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:19 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: We're all Keynesians now -- ("Ich bin ein Berliner")
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
----------------------
> -
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: We're all Keynesians now -- ("Ich bin ein Berliner")
>
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> -
>
> That is a very different question.
>
> In my view, he said "I am a jelly doughnut." But I agree with the
> sentiment that it is the thought that counts. JFK's presence in
> Berlin, and his display of unity with the West Berliners, in German no
> less, were understood in a very positive way, despite his bad accent
> and grammar.
>
> DanG
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
--------------------
> ---
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: We're all Keynesians now -- ("Ich bin ein
Berliner")
> >
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> ---
> >
> > Suppose it had been in English.
> >
> > "I am Berliner" = I live in/ am from Berlin.
> >
> > "I am a Berliner" = I'm a jelly doughnut.
> >
> > Now: JFK was an American, speaking English up to that moment, to a
> > crowd that knew he was neither a Berliner nor a jelly doughnut nor a
> > native speaker of German.
> >
> > Regardless of the dialectal variation that (IIRC) Rey Aman said is
> > possible, would anyone in the crowd (other than Von Beavis and Von
> > Butthead) have understood JFK to have said, hilariously, "I am a
jelly
> > doughnut!"? And not made proper allowance?
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Alice Faber
<faber at haskins.yale.edu> wrote:
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
-------------------
> ----
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Alice Faber <faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU>
> >> Organization: Haskins Laboratories
> >> Subject:      Re: We're all Keynesians now -- ("Ich bin ein
Berliner")
> >>
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> ----
> >>
> >> On 12/1/11 8:10 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> >>> Neiither of the first two links contradict the claim that JFK said
"I
> >>> am a jelly doughnut".
> >>>
> >>> The first states that the audience understood what he meant.
> >>>
> >>> The second states that it would have sounded silly to say it
correctly
> >>> because of JFK's accent, so saying it incorrectly was preferred.
> >>>
> >>> The third link seems broken.
> >>
> >>
> >> TAKFAC is no more as a site. If it matters, I can ask the former
> >> maintainer if the archive has been ported anywhere else. Meanwhile,
see
> >> also:
> >>
> >> http://www.snopes.com/language/misxlate/berliner.asp
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Ben Zimmer
> >>> <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu>  wrote:
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
-----------------
> ------
> >>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>> Poster:       Ben Zimmer<bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU>
> >>>> Subject:      Re: We're all Keynesians now -- ("Ich bin ein
Berliner")
> >>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ------
> >>>>
> >>>> For debunkings, see:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.watzmann.net/scg/faq-25.html
> >>>> http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/jfk_berliner.htm
> >>>> http://tafkac.org/language/kennedy_berliner_quote.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please do. My 13 years in Germany lead me to the jelly doughnut
> interpretation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Cohen, Gerald Leonard wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I assume this is a joke.  If not, I'll dig out Reinhold Aman's
article
> in which he (in his inimitable Reinhold Aman style)
> >>>>>> rebuts the jelly-doughnut-myth.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Message from James A. Landau (JJJRLandau at netscape.com), Wed
11/30/2011
> 9:22 AM:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And who can forget President Kennedy's immortal line in a
speech he
> gave in West Berlin:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "I am a jelly doughnut"
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
>
 =======================================================================
======
> >> Alice Faber
faber at haskins.yale.edu
> >> Haskins Laboratories                           tel: (203) 865-6163
x258
> >> New Haven, CT 06511 USA                        fax (203) 865-8963
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
truth."
> >
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>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

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