_caramel_

[Paul Johnston]

Yes, and I'd equate the trisyllabic vowel with the MARRY vowel.  If MARRY doesn't equal MERRY, it's /ae/, if it does, it's /E/; though I think there's a rather large correlation between having MARRY = MERRY and having carmel.  That's my wife's pattern (Cleveland) and my students' (Michigan, various parts).

Paul Johnston
On Dec 19, 2011, at 11:48 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: _caramel_
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Dec 19, 2011, at 11:04 PM, V wrote:
>
>> Here is an observation
>>
>> 1. arC, ar#: COT vowel: carmel
>> 2. arV: MARRY/MERRY vowel: caramel
>>
>> The vowel quality changes depending on the pattern.
>>
>> Pedro
>>
> Agreed. In the trisyllabic version, the first syllable is open:  ca-ra-mel (cf. "carrot" with stressed /ae/ vowel (or /&/, depending on your transcription system)
> In the bisyllabic version, it's closed:  car-mel (cf. "car" /a/)
>
> This isn't absolute; sometimes my friends (or even strangers, like my haircutter this morning) call me "Lar" and don't rhyme it with "car".  But it's pretty general.
>
> LH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
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>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject:      Re: _caramel_
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Could there one have been both a
>>>
>>> [kAr at mEl]
>>>
>>> and a
>>>
>>> [kar at m@l]
>>>
>>> that eventually became
>>>
>>> [karm at l]
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> I can't remember when I switched to the trisyllabic pronunciation, but
>>> it probably wasn't until after I got out of the Army at the age of 25
>>> and moved from Saint Louis to Los Angeles for good. My wife thinks
>>> that it was a grad student at at around the same age that she made the
>>> switch. IAC, we both somehow got the impression that bisyllabic was
>>> wrong and trisyllabic right, after growing up bisyllabic in regions a
>>> thousand miles apart.
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Wilson
>>> -----
>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>>> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> -Mark Twain
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
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>>>> Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster: Â  Â  Â  "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>>> Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: _caramel_
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> My unreliable memory tells me I grew up out of
>>>> "carmel" (as in the candy, probably picked up on
>>>> the street*) into "caramel", each pronounced as below.
>>>> White, slightly earlier period, New York City.
>>>>
>>>> * No, not the candy, the pronunciation.
>>>>
>>>> Joel
>>>>
>>>> At 12/19/2011 01:21 AM, John Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>>>> Carmel--first vowel has COT sound
>>>>> Caramel--I say three syllables, the first "A" as in BAT.
>>>>> Demographics: Â White; grew up in the '50s & '60s in Wash., D.C. and
>>> adjacent
>>>>> Montgomery Co., Md.; parochial schools
>>>>>
>>>>> Seán Fitzpatrick
>>>>> ╲The heart that you break--
>>>>> thatâ•˙s the one that you rely on.â•
>>>>>
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