"we are two peoples separated by a common language" antedated & attributed

[Neal Whitman]

Reminds me of how the Babel fish caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of the galaxy.

Neal

On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:32 AM, "Garson O'Toole" <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "we are two peoples separated by a common language" antedated
>              & attributed
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks to Stephen Goranson for locating the 1942 BBC cite.
>
> In the 1920s a curiously different type of joke about the common
> language of Great Britain and America was associated with George
> Bernard Shaw. Here is a version in the New York Times.
>
> Cite: 1923 March 2, New York Times, "Editorial Article 1 -- No Title",
> Page 14, New York. (ProQuest)
>
> Here is a version of the joke told by Shaw himself in 1924:
>
> Cite: May 1924, Harper's Magazine, A Dialogue on Things In General
> Between George Bernard Shaw and Archibald Henderson, [Article start
> Page 705], Page 708, Column 2, Harper & Brothers, New York. (Harper's
> Magazine online archive)
>
> HENDERSON. You have been execrated for publicly asserting, prior to
> the Washington Conference, that England wanted to fight America.
> Perhaps you were misquoted. Like Nietzsche, you are a "good European."
> May I ask whether you would like to see an alliance or union of the
> English-speaking peoples?
>
> SHAW. People should execrate me for things I have said, not for the
> things that fools say I have said. I think there should be an alliance
> of all the peoples who are psychologically homogeneous enough to share
> one another's ideas. A common language certainly makes an alliance
> easier; though you must not forget that it also makes quarreling
> easier. The Americans and Chinese may utter endless insults to each
> other and be none the worse, because neither understands the other;
> but an American insult to the English or an English insult to the
> Americans might lead to a war.
>
> Garson
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Baker, John <JMB at stradley.com> wrote:
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>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: "we are two peoples separated by a common language" antedated
>>             & attributed
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> If the Reader's Digest timing was the same in 1942 as in later years, =
>> the November issue would have been published in early October.
>> =20
>> =20
>> John Baker
>> =20
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Shapiro, Fred
>> Sent: Thu 2/24/2011 8:27 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: "we are two peoples separated by a common language" =
>> antedated & attributed
>>
>>
>>
>> Nice find, Stephen.  I had tried for years to antedate the Nov. 1942 =
>> Reader's Digest occurrence.
>>
>> Fred Shapiro
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of =
>> Stephen Goranson [goranson at DUKE.EDU]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 2:35 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: "we are two peoples separated by a common language" antedated & =
>>            attributed
>>
>> Confirmed on paper:
>> The Listener (London: British Broadcasting Corporation) 29 October 1942, =
>> Volume 28, no. 720, p. 550, col. 1,
>> in a discussion, "Britain and America Today" (pp. 549-551):
>> Raymond Gram Swing:....When we discussed this subject in [October] 1930 =
>> we talked mostly about the need for knowledge and understanding. British =
>> knowledge of America was inadequate then and American knowledge of =
>> Britain was not so much better. And in the meantime I should say that =
>> what our two peoples actually know of each other has not grown to be =
>> anything like enough. Don't forget what Bernard Shaw said: that we are =
>> two peoples separated by a common language.
>>
>> Stephen Goranson
>> http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
>>
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