the moose's problem (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Mullins, Bill AMRDEC]

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

For anyone who cares, the original question about Heinlein and the
Moose's Problem:

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/thsnexus/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1092



> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Laurence Horn
> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:55 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: the moose's problem (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
---------------
> --------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: the moose's problem (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
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> --------
>
> I prefer the first of these versions, the one from the 1933 book cited
> by Garson.  Not only is the story better developed, but there's
> something intrinsically risible about a moose.  (Perhaps that's why
> Heinlein preferred "the moose's problem" to "the deer's problem" as
> well.)
>
> LH
>
> On Jul 19, 2011, at 2:41 AM, Douglas G. Wilson wrote:
>
> > On 7/19/2011 2:26 AM, Douglas G. Wilson wrote:
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> -----------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson"<douglas at NB.NET>
> >> Subject:      Re: the moose's problem (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>
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> -----------
> >>
> >> On 7/19/2011 2:04 AM, Garson O'Toole wrote:
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> ------------
> >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster:       Garson O'Toole<adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> >>> Subject:      Re: the moose's problem (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>
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> ------------
> >>>
> >>> Here is an instance of the same basic joke in 1872. Given this
> >>> longevity the idea that Heinlein was referring to it is more
> >>> plausible. The phrasing of the punchline is different. Here are
the
> >>> final sentences of the joke:
> >>>
> >>> Cite: 1872, A Noble Lord by Emma Dorothy Eliza Nevitte Southworth,
> >>> Pages 81-82, T.B. Peterson&   Brothers, Philadelphia. (Google
Books
> >>> full view)
> >>>
> >>> "Oh well, if you must know," coolly returned the Captain, "I was
> but
> >>> wondering how the deuce those majestic deer, with antlers
branching
> >>> ten feet wide, managed to bound through those magnificent forests
> >>> where the titanic oak trees stand but three feet apart."
> >>>
> >>> For a moment the Colonel was dumbfounded, and then he exclaimed:
> >>>
> >>> "By Jupiter, sir, that was their business - not mine, or yours!"
> >>>
> >>>
>
http://books.google.com/books?id=edFaj6KZBHgC&q=impenetrable#v=snippet&
> >>>
> >>> Garson
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:28 AM, Garson O'Toole
> >>> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>   wrote:
> >>>> Bill Mullins wrote:
> >>>>>> Twice in his novels, SF author Robert Heinlein has a character
> say
> >>>>>> "that's the moose's problem" (Stranger in a Strange Land and
> Glory
> >>>>>> Road).  Both times, it appears from context that the meaning
is,
> "let
> >>>>>> someone else deal with the details" or "It's not my job" --
> something
> >>>>>> like that.
> >>>> Bill: Below is the text of a joke that I extracted from a book
> that GB
> >>>> dates to 1933. The punchline of the joke is "That's the moose's
> >>>> problem." If a joke is popular enough then sometimes its
punchline
> can
> >>>> become a catch phrase. I do not have any evidence that this was a
> >>>> popular joke, but conceivably Heinlein heard the joke and enjoyed
> it
> >>>> enough to refer to it in his books. Or maybe there are other
> variant
> >>>> jokes with the same punchline.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cite: Circa 1933, Principles of Effective Letter Writing by
> Lawrence
> >>>> Campbell Lockley, GB Page 228-229, McGraw-Hill Book Company,
Inc.,
> New
> >>>> York. (Google Books snippet; Not verified on paper; Data may be
> >>>> inaccurate)
> >>>>
> >>>> Sunk in the spacious comfort of a deep arm chair at his luxurious
> >>>> Fifth Avenue club, a successful broker was boasting of his
hunting
> >>>> experiences. Inclined to exaggerate, he was telling of an almost
> >>>> impenetrable forest in the Northwest.
> >>>>
> >>>> "The trees," he said, "were growing so close to each other that
> they
> >>>> were actually less than a foot apart. For hours we had fought our
> way
> >>>> inward in search of game. I was in the lead, when - roaring,
> tearing,
> >>>> and crashing directly at me - charged a huge bull moose with
> antlers
> >>>> measuring fully ten feet from tip to tip. Death sped toward me
> while I
> >>>> stood rooted to the spot. Then-"
> >>>>
> >>>> "Hold on, hold on," interrupted a somewhat unfriendly skeptic.
> "Only a
> >>>> minute ago you told us that the trees in this forest were less
> than a
> >>>> foot apart. Then in the next breath you tell us that in the same
> >>>> forest a bull moose with antlers fully ten feet wide came
charging
> at
> >>>> you. How could a moose with that size antlers charge through such
> a
> >>>> forest?"
> >>>>
> >>>> This stopped the big game hunter for a moment. He didn't change
> his
> >>>> expression or move even enough to disturb the smoke from his
cigar
> >>>> spiraling into the haze above his head - he was, however, plainly
> >>>> perturbed. It was a bad stump - and from that low-brow Kennedy,
> too.
> >>>> But this lasted for only a second. He leaned forward slightly and
> >>>> addressed his audience, ignoring Kennedy.
> >>>>
> >>>> "That's the moose's problem," he said.
> >>>>
> >>>> (End excerpt)
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that when the character Jubal uses the phrase in
"Stranger
> in
> >>>> a Strange Land" he is saying that the problem of serving meals to
> him
> >>>> may be difficult but it is Anne's problem not his.
> >> --
> >>
> >> I see another instance, supposedly 1957, of this story:
Google-books
> >> <<"that was the deer's problem">>.
> > --
> >
> > And here's another "deer's problem", recalled from some time before
> 1936.
> >
> > http://www.claybourn.org/arthur_smith.html
> >
> > -- Doug Wilson
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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