"needs washed": P.S.

[Neal Whitman]

I took issue with the unacceptability of "by" phrases in my blog post on
Brassil's talk. My wife was fine with some sample sentences with "needs" +en
and a "by" phrase.

Neal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: "needs washed": P.S.


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "needs washed":  P.S.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 7/26/2011 4:48 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Laurence Horn<laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject:      "needs washed":  P.S.
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> P.S.  I just realized this would be a good excuse to alert ads-l readers
>> =
>> to the existence of the Yale Grammatical Diversity Project on English in
>> =
>> North America (a.k.a. MSAVE), an almost brand-new online dialect syntax =
>> project.  Click on =
>> http://microsyntax.sites.yale.edu/phenomena/needs-washed
>> and read (and click) away!
> --
>
> This is interesting (thanks) and I've just started to look at it.
>
> My remarks on the "Syntactic Properties":
>
> <<As pointed out in Brassil (2009), "need washed" sentences:>>
>
> <<do not admit the presence of a "by-phrase" (unlike passives, and like
> middles): Her dress needs washed (*by Alexis)>>
>
> --
>
> This doesn't seem right to me. Google (e.g.) <<"needs checked by">> for
> a couple dozen examples which seem (to me) entirely natural for
> Pittsburgh etc.
>
> As for the construction with "want": Google (e.g.) (preferably with
> NetNanny disabled, I guess) <<"wants laid by">> (the less squeamish can
> try the comparable expression with the F-word, etc.).
>
> --
>
> <<allow the presence of a purpose clause (like passives, and unlike
> middles): Rice needs cooked in order to round out the meal.>>
>
> --
>
> Right.
>
> --
>
> <<express generic statements and not punctual events (unlike passives,
> and like middles): These laminate floors need cleaned (*at noon).>>
>
> --
>
> I'm not sure about this one. Of course there is not unanimity on these
> things. I find only sparse counterexamples by Google: e.g., "That means
> the water would need turned off at 3 a.m., not 6 a.m. as Joe thought."
>
> --
>
> <<exhibit lexical restrictions - that is, are not possible with all
> transitive verbs: *Dave needs invited.>>
>
> --
>
> Maybe there are lexical restrictions, I don't know, but the example is
> not convincing. Google (e.g.) <<"need invited" -"in need">> for numerous
> examples with "invited" (along with some false hits).
>
> ----------
>
> IIRC there is a map for "needs washed" in Labov's atlas which can be
> seen by "search inside" at Amazon.
>
> -- Doug Wilson
>
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