The "Big Bad Wolf" and chickens?

[Jonathan Lighter]

Since we're still at it, I'll observe that the phrase "the big, bad wolf" in
1909 would not have the same resonance as "The Big Bad Wolf" (note
capitalization and lack of comma) after the mid '30s.

The 1909 big, bad wolf was scary. The Big Bad Wolf is scary and funny.

JL

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: The "Big Bad Wolf" and chickens?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In response to Joel's original comment: The Big Bad Wolf in the Disney
> stories does "swipe chickens" according to text extracted from "Walt
> Disney's Li'l Bad Wolf stories" in Google Books. This accords with
> John Baker's remark "I seem to recall that in those stories Zeke did
> occasionally go after chickens."
>
> Cite: 1978, Walt Disney's Li'l Bad Wolf stories, Walt Disney
> Productions, GB Page 21, Golden Press. (Google Books snippet;
> Extracted text; Not verified on paper; May be inaccurate)
>
> Li'l Wolf nodded. "He sure does. If he got a job and spent that much
> energy working, he wouldn't have to keep swiping chickens."
>
> Now Li'l Wolf looked very sad indeed. He wasn't telling Granny Fox
> anything she didn't already know. Big Bad Wolf was famed from one end
> of the county to the other as a chicken-thief and an idler, as well as
> a pig-chaser.
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=vNHrEBEseTAC&q=chickens#search_anchor
>
>
> Victor expressed an interest in the 1927 New York Times citation that
> mentions the big, bad wolf. Here is the text.
>
> Cite: 1927 January 15, New York Times, Sports of the Times by John
> Kieran, New York. (ProQuest)
>
> In training and exhibition bouts a champion must be careful of his
> bands. That means he pulls his punches. He picks opponents who have no
> more chance with him than Little Red Riding Hood had with the big, bad
> wolf.
>
> This is an odd figure of speech. In many versions of the encounter
> between the wolf and Little Red Riding Hood the wolf suffers. If
> Little Red Riding Hood's fight manager also works as a woodchopper
> there might be trouble.
>
> In the 1909 cite the big bad wolf is bested by cats in one story and
> by a little pig with a brick house in another story.
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Baker, John <JMB at stradley.com> wrote:
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> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: The "Big Bad Wolf" and chickens?
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >        Google Books does have earlier examples of the "big, bad wolf."
> > These are in full text and appear to check out.  I didn't see "Big Bad
> > Wolf," though.
> >
> >        Li'l Bad Wolf was a regular in the pages of Walt Disney's Comics
> > and Stories, the Disney anthology comic book that has run since 1940.  I
> > seem to recall that in those stories Zeke did occasionally go after
> > chickens.
> >
> >        "Li'l" and its variant, "Little," is a surprisingly common name
> > for children in the comics:  Little Lotta, Little Dot, Little Lulu, even
> > Li'l Abner.  Rarely seen in real life.
> >
> >
> > John Baker
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> > Of Jonathan Lighter
> > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:54 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: The "Big Bad Wolf" and chickens?
> >
> > I dunno, Victor, Are you sure you're talking about Disney's Zeke "The
> > Big
> > Bad" Wolf?
> >
> > My impression is that the Disney wolf & pigs cartoon was the earliest
> > source
> > to call the wolf "The Big Bad."
> >
> > Specialists will recall the angst of his son, "Li'l Wolf," as he tried
> > to thwart his father with good deeds. Adding to his difficulties was
> > that he
> > was a boy named Li'l.
> >
> > Where are you now, Li'l Wolf? We hope you have triumphed over your
> > tragic
> > upbringing.
> >
> > JL
> >
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