"spoofy" and "shimming" in Utah, 1919

[Jonathan Lighter]

Yes.

JL

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "spoofy" and "shimming" in Utah, 1919
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 8:09 PM -0500 3/6/11, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >If, as has been alleged, "jazz" was sex slang before it was zest and music
> >slang, that fact may well have escaped the notice of editors in 1912 and
> >later.
> >
> >Such a word would *never* have appeared in public print in that
> >era. So knowledge of it could only have come from conversation.  If the
> word
> >was relatively new - say ten or twenty years old for the sake of argument
> -
> >and largely restricted to the red-light district of just one or two big
> >cities - it is perfectly possible that the few early journalists quoted
> (and
> >even the Original Dixieland Jazz Band) knew nothing about it.
> >
> >Once it became associated publicly with energy and music, there would be
> no
> >reason not to print it.
> >
> >Because of the social and media taboos of the period, the question will
> >probably remain moot.
> >
> >I agree that the weight of the evidence now is that the sexual
> >meaning is secondary, but the pre-existence of "jasm" in a sexual as well
> as
> >a non-sexual sense, plus the relatively early assertion of a sexual
> meaning
> >(i.e., not many decades later as is the case of many false etymological
> >claims) leaves its primacy as a real possibility, IMO.
> >
> >JL
>
> On such a chronology, would the afore-attested
> use of "jas(s)/jaz(z)" in a minor league baseball
> context (those "jazz curves" as such as
> attributed to Pacific Coast League pitchers) have
> provided a kind of laundering service during the
> post-coital but pre-musical phase of its
> trajectory?
>
> LH
>
> >On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>  -----------------------
> >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>  Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >>  Subject:      Re: "spoofy" and "shimming" in Utah, 1919
> >>
> >>
>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>  On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 1:28 PM, George Thompson <
> george.thompson at nyu.edu>
> >>  wrote:
> >>  > [I]f a newspaper editor knew that in his region "jazz" was known as
> an
> >>  obscenity, when "jazz" became a national musical fad, he would have
> shown
> >>  some embarrassment in printing the word, or would have refused to print
> it
> >>  at all. Â Here we have the student paper in Salt Lake City printing
> "jass
> >>  orchestra" and "jazzing", with no qualms, to add to a number of other
> >>  papers, north & south, east & west, that printed the word before 1920.
> >>
> >>  Your logic is impeccable. However, it raises - or should that be
> >>  "begs"? (for those with no sense of humor, the question is meant to be
> >>  interpreted as facetious and not as a genuine request for guidance) -
> >>  the question: how and when did _jass_ / _jazz_ come to take on, for a
> >>  brief period, the relevant meaning?
> >>
> >>  OTOH, one might argue that, given that Mormons are not known to get
> >>  down, even today, perhaps the editor was simply unhip.
> >>
> >>  --
> >>  -Wilson
> >>  -----
> >>  All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
> >>  to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>  -Mark Twain
> >>
> >>  ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org