"admitted allegation"?

Fri Mar 11 22:29:48 UTC 2011

me: I said that "John said the pipes are bad"

Judge: So you allege that you said "john said the pipes are bad"
me:  Yes . I admit to that allegation.

Judge.  You have an admitted allegation.
me:  Yes, but John alleges he did not make that allegation.

Judge.  That the pipes were bad.
me:  Yes.  Thus what I allege is his non-admitted allegation.

Judge.  Because your allegation is counter to his
me:  Yes.  He alleges that I never made my allegation about his non-admitted allegation.

Judge:  That you never told his non-admitted allegation to anyone?
me:  Right so my admitted allegation is pitted against his non-admitted allegation and his allegation that my allegatiion is not true.

Judge:  Just becasue you have an admitted allegation and John has a non-admitted allegation doesn't prove that either are true true without proof.

Tom Zurinskas, Conn 20 yrs, then Tenn 3, NJ 33, now FL 9.
The FREE English-based phonetic converters, URL and text , are at truespel.com

> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:19:54 -0500
> From: Berson at ATT.NET
> Subject: Re: "admitted allegation"?
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> 
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject: Re: "admitted allegation"?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> At 3/10/2011 12:17 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> >Thanks, John, that explains the usage. And I can now see the lawyer
> >standing behind the Cardinal (or on his tongue?).
> >
> >Joel
> >
> >At 3/10/2011 11:52 AM, Baker, John wrote:
> >> In a civil court, a lawsuit is initiated by filing a complaint,
> >>which recites a number of allegations by the plaintiff. The defendant
> >>responds with an answer, in which each allegation is admitted or denied
> >>(or some permutation thereon). So the cardinal's usage was quite
> >>unexceptional in a legal context.
> >>
> >>
> >>John Baker
> 
> On the other hand --
> 
> In an article on the Roman Catholic archdiocese of Boston in today's
> Boston Globe, Lisa Wangsness writes about the U.S. bishops' standards
> of 2002 for handling sexual abuse, "Those standards established,
> among other things, a zero-tolerance policy that priests be
> permanently removed from ministry if a single act of abuse of a minor
> is admitted or established."
> 
> The same words -- "admitted" and "established" -- as quoted from
> Cardinal Rigali of Philadelphia, but here applied to "acts", not
> "allegations". But then, Wangsness is not a lawyer, only a
> professional in the use of English.
> 
> In fact, the 2002 standard, in Article 5, says "Where sexual abuse
> by a priest or a deacon is admitted or is established after an
> appropriate investigation in accord with canon law ...". This too
> applies the adjectives to an act -- "abuse" -- not an allegation.
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/06/14/policy.htm
> 
> Joel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> >>Of Joel S. Berson
> >>Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 11:28 AM
> >>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>Subject: Re: "admitted allegation"?
> >>
> >>At 3/9/2011 11:06 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> >> >By confession or independent verification.
> >>
> >>Yes, I got the intent, but part of the usage grated. Isn't it a
> >>*crime* that would be admitted (confessed), not an allegation? "I
> >>confess to the allegation" or I confess to the alleged crime"? (On
> >>second reading, establishing / verifying an allegation now sounds OK to
> >>me.)
> >>
> >>Joel
> >>
> >> >DanG
> >> >
> >> >On Mar 9, 2011 9:58 PM, "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >-----------------------
> >> > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > > Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >> > > Subject: "admitted allegation"?
> >> > >
> >> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>--------
> >> > >
> >> > > Cardinal Justin Rigali of Philadelphia is quoted as having said, in
> >> > > response to the grand jury report, that ' there were no priests in
> >> > > active ministry "who have an admitted or established allegation of
> >> > > sexual abuse of a minor against them." '
> >> > >
> >> > > NYTimes, March 9, "Philadelphia Cardinal Suspending 21 Priests", by
> >> > > Catharaine Q. Seelye.
> >> > >
> >> > > How does an "allegation" become "admitted"? Or "established"?
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> 
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