Limerick poem dates

[Stephen Goranson]

________________________________________
From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Garson O'Toole [adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 2:04 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Limerick poem dates

> Stephen Goranson wrote:
>> Though I am away from my notes on Limerick, according to the article:
>>
>> 1) That "the first recorded example" of "come to Limerick" as "a challenge
>> to somebody to come to the point, make himself clear, face the music or
>> submit" is from 1862. But that is not true.

> Michael Quinion wrote
> If you would care to supply corrections, I will happily incorporate them
> into the article.

This message concerns only point number 1. The ADS list archive
contains multiple matches for "come to Limerick". The earliest cite I
saw in a quick perusal was 1862 and that is already mentioned in
Michael Quinion's article. Apologies for missing an earlier cite if it
is in the archives. In any case, here are two earlier cites found via
database searching. The phrase appears in quotes within the articles
below. (Please double-check for typos, accuracy, and appropriate
sense):

Cite: 1860 May 5, Plain Dealer, Editorial Correspondence, Page 2,
Column 2, Cleveland, Ohio. (GenealogyBank)

We told them we were not Buchanan Lecomp-
con men, but were determined Douglas Democrats,
and that they must now "come to Limerick!"
They had stolen a few friends from us by the
ruling of their chairman.

Cite: 1861 May 11, The Wisconsin State Register, Shanghal Tracks: From
the Camp - A Card, Issue 8; col D, Portage, Wisconsin. (19th Century
Newspapers)

We are ready to "come
to Limerick," when 'tis necessary - cat foul
meat, fouler bread, or any other rations
known in the history of the Mexican or
Revolutionary war;

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[Stephen G:]
Thank you; that's a very nice May 1860 find. The May 1861 quotation is in the list archives, first mentioned by Bill Mullins, (Mon, 12 Jan 2009) and later by Jonathan Lighter; Wilson Gray suggested emending "cat" to "eat," and Bill, on reexamination, agreed. The quote is also on page 7 of Gerald Cohen (compiler), "Stephen Goranson's research into _limerick_: a preliminary report," Comments on Etymology 40 (Oct-Nov 2010) 2-11.

Some of the early uses of "come to Limerick" appear to be related to the US Civil War, perhaps making the suggested allusion to the Irish Civil War Treaty of Limerick worth considering. Several five-line nonsense poems were published in the US on Civil War themes. The US (and not UK) slang "come to Limerick" may be related to the Nov 1880 attested "wont you come to Limerick," found in North America with a five-line nonsense poem of that type. "Come to Limerick" after the Civil War was used in various jocular settings, as well as in challenges to political opponents. Fred Shapiro's Dec 1880 Police Gazette "Limerick Rhymes" find, largely reprinted in a MN newspaper, but not, to my knowledge, found in UK newspapers, appears to be not genuine reporting, but plagiarized from an 1879 book, as detailed in the archives, with an addition, by the US editor, of Limerick Rhymes.

There's the 20 January 1895 correspondence mentioning limericks between the publisher William Heinemann and Kipling, when Kipling was in the US. (Cited by Bob Tuvey from Letters of Rudyard Kipling v. 2 ed. Th. Pinney [1990] p. 169: "I am working hard but shall experimentalize on Limericks.") The 1881 incident in Oxford (detailed in the archives) when the (CE) Bishop of Limerick got a degree and heard chanting about Limerick that he and his son--writers both--did not understand. The 1890 Baby's Journey (to Limerick) poem (in the archives) in the US. Also, Comments on Etymology article, p. 3: "I think the US connection is important, in part because it helps explain why it was missed: researchers concentrated on Ireland and Oxbridge. In other words, I would not have found the Nov 1880 antedating unless I had persuaded at least myself that (North) American publications were worth searching for this. There are further texts that suggest currency earlier in North America than abro!
 ad, but, for now, I think it better to get this issue delivered than to try more additions."

Stephen Goranson
http://www.duke.edu/~goranson

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