tragedy plus time

Tue Mar 15 20:11:22 UTC 2011

Well, I was wrong about the "Humor" part. Today's Mark Twain claim employed
"humor" instead of "comedy."

But writer and director Woody Allen did make Alan Alda say "Comedy is
tragedy plus time" in _Crimes and Misdemeanors_ (1989).

I didn't say he invented the idea.

JL

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:

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> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: tragedy plus time
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 3:13 PM -0400 3/15/11, Victor Steinbok wrote:
> >GB only has four hits pre-1983, with three (1972, 1975 and 1983)
> >attributing the "humor" version to Lenny Bruce and the fourth being
> >anonymous (also 1983).
> >
> >The Essential Lenny Bruce (1975) puts it a bit differently:
> >
> >>And that's why my contention is : that satire is /tragedy plus time/.
> >
> >"Comedy" gets substantially more hits, but many of them spurious.
> >
> >http://goo.gl/EeePH
> >Show: The Magazine of the Arts, Volume 3. 1963
> >p. 116
> >>To her, "Comedy is tragedy mellowed by time."
> >
> >The snippet covers two columns and the first one starts, "The first of
> >three Burnett specials this year". The second starts with the quotation
> >above. The quote is actually more extensive, as it gives an example of a
> >childhood experience with penicillin. The date--both intrinsic (from
> >search) and extrinsic (WorldCat) appears to be correct and, if
> >pagination is accurate, the snippet comes from the February 1963 issue.
> >So, at least, when it comes to Burnett, the attribution is not spurious.
> >
> >Another snippet points to Television Quarterly nearly a decade later and
> >includes an exchange between CB and HK (Harvey K????).
>
> Harvey Korman, (almost) no doubt.
>
> LH
>
> >Again, both
> >intrinsic and extrinsic indications are that the volume does represent
> >TVQ, volumes 9 and 10, which run from Winter 1970 to Summer 1972. The
> >snippet does not show the relevant text (but does mention "Harvey"), so
> >the text is from the preview.
> >
> >http://goo.gl/g61PO
> >p. 39
> >>CB --- A lot of /comedy is tragedy plus time/. HK --- Sure, you break
> >>your leg and it's a tragedy at the time but six weeks later. . .
> >
> >Another hit gives TV Guide 1972. The date is almost irrelevant, but
> >attribution is not.
> >
> >http://goo.gl/aVKuP
> >>"I got my sense of humor from my mother," Carol has said. "I'd tell
> >>her my tragedies. She'd make me laugh. She said /comedy is tragedy
> >>plus time/." (Her father, Jody Burnett, died in 1954, her mother in
> 1958.)
> >
> >It's clear that Burnett did not get the expression from Bruce, but it is
> >certainly possible that the reverse is not true either--both might have
> >got their expression from independent sources, derived from another, yet
> >earlier source. I only found one other related GB hits (1972), but it
> >was unattributed.
> >
> >There is an interesting earlier point--Book Review Digest
> >[unquestionably] from 1930 [The cover is unambiguous and dating appears
> >to be accurate]. The text is taken from the description of a book (so
> >far unidentified). Another hit identifies the citation as "Wilson
> >Bulletin for Librarians", but shows the same (unrelated) snippet. The
> >text is pasted from the two previews, not from snippets.
> >
> >>"Miss Ertz, who Is a shrewd and clever writer, does not seem herself
> >>altogether happy about this background of chronicled fashion. /Comedy,
> >>fashion; tragedy, time/, is the formula. It is in effect the choice
> >>between time and time's whirligig; and Miss Ertz seems to hover
> >>uncertainly between the two.
> >
> >New York Magazine (Feb 15, 1971) goes in a completely different direction:
> >>Once again we cite the equation: /Tragedy plus Time/ equals
> Acceptability.
> >
> >There is a whole bunch of similar quotes from 1970-72 (at least,
> >according to GB--also repeated in later publications) from a variety of
> >publications:
> >
> >Tragedy plus time can equal comedy.
> >True comedy is oftentimes tragedy plus time or distance.
> >"Tragedy plus time can lead to humor. Tragedy without enough time can
> >produce refined cruelty." [This is the unattributed 1983 cite that
> >appears to mask Lenny Bruce as "the author".]
> >
> >The Railroad Telegrapher from 1958 gives a different formula:
> >
> >>Dollars plus time is the story of most investment plans, but if there
> >>is no time in which to make the accumulation, what becomes of the
> >>family? The answer is a bankrupt family, and a bankrupt family is
> tragedy.
> >
> >But this seems to be directly borrowed from Trans-communicator, 1951.
> >[Both are union publications--neither shows the relevant snippet,
> >although the dates appear to be accurate.]
> >
> >     VS-)
> >
> >On 3/15/2011 3:07 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> >>At 1:55 PM -0400 3/15/11, Shapiro, Fred wrote:
> >>>This is usually attributed to Carol Burnett or Woody Allen, but both
> >>>of those attributions are probably apocryphal like the Twain one.
> >>>In 2004 Barry Popik posted a citation from the early 1960s here, I
> >>>believe.
> >>>
> >>>Fred Shapiro
> >>A good many of the (post-Twain) attributions have "tragedy plus time"
> >>as the definition of comedy rather than humor; close, but not quite
> >>the same cigar.
> >>
> >>LH
> >
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>
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