Patton's "dumb bastard"

Sat Mar 19 11:12:15 UTC 2011

Garson, our posts crossed.

I'm looking for my copies of the MacDonald text and one other, but I may not
be able to find them quickly.

JL

On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Garson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Patton's "dumb bastard"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In 1917 a war poem titled "Dying for Your Country" was published. The
> last two lines of the fourth stanza present a version of the primary
> concept under discussion I think. There is an echo of this wording in
> a World War II joke in 1942. (See the next cite.)
>
> Cite: 1917, War Poems by X [GB gives author name Thomas William
> Hodgson Crosland], Poem: Dying for Your Country, Stanza 4, Page 43,
> Doubleday, Page & Company, Garden City, New York, (Google Books full
> view)
>
> So, Johnny, keep your barrel bright,
>  And go where you are told to go,
> And when you meet, by day or night,
>  Our friend the enemy, lay him low;
> And you must neither boast nor quake,
>  Though big guns roar and whizz-bangs whizz-
> Don't die for your dear country's sake,
>  But let the other chap die for his.
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=QIA-AAAAYAAJ&q=whizz#v=snippet&
>
>
> Cite: 1942 August 28, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Hollywood by Hugh
> Dixon, GN Page 23, Column 5, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. (Google News
> archive)
>
> Irving Hoffman is telling about the doting dame who stopped an RAF
> pilot at the Stage Door Canteen the other night and gushed: "I think
> it's perfectly wonderful to think that you go into the air to die for
> your country." Shot back the English flier: "Like heck I do, ma'am, I
> go up to make some other chap die for his."
>
>
> In 2004 a book was published by Jack Sacco the son of a soldier named
> Joe Sacco. The book ostensibly recounts a speech by Patton that
> includes the quotation. The section appears to have the title:
> "General Patton Speaks to the Invasion Troops, Near Oxford, England,
> June 5, 1944". (Some pages are skipped in the preview so I cannot be
> sure of the section title.) YBQ mentions another date: May 31, 1944.
> Of course, Patton may have given a similar speech more than once. How
> did Jack Sacco reconstruct Patton's speech? I do not know anything
> about the accuracy of this text. I am posting this simply as a
> possible lead.
>
> Cite: 2004, Where the Birds Never Sing: The True Story of the 92nd
> Signal Battalion and the Liberation of Dachau by Jack Sacco, Page 142,
> HarperCollins, New York. (Google Books preview)
>
> "I want you to remember that no poor bastard ever won a war by dying
> for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb
> son-of-a-bitching bastard die for his country. Remember that.
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=6zD-VUd_N9EC&q=%22die+for%22#v=snippet&
>
> Garson
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Sam Clements <SClements at neo.rr.com>
> wrote:
>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Sam Clements <SClements at NEO.RR.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: Patton's "dumb bastard"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > In my Ggogle snippet, it shows "Learn to use this thing.  LET THE OTHER
> > BASTARD...."
> >
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=9dBAAAAAIAAJ&q=%22let+the+other+bastard%22&dq=%22let+the+other+bastard%22&hl=en&ei=gxCETbXCF8HF0QGArs3ODA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAg
> >
> > Sam Clements
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "victor steinbok" <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> > To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 22:03
> > Subject: Re: Patton's "dumb bastard"
> >
> >
> >> The book is in GB, but the snippet is rather useless--only the header
> >> is visible, but it does say "let the other guy die for his country".
> >>
> >> VS-)
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> >> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>> 1944 Gilbert Bailey _Boot_ (N.Y.: Macmillan) 31: The idea works. It
> saves
> >>> lives. Like Sergeant Rountree told us when he wound up a lecture on the
> >>> M1
> >>> rifle: "Learn to use this thing. LET THE OTHER BASTARD DIE FOR HIS
> >>> COUNTRY.
> >>> YOU LIVE FOR YOURS."
> >>
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> >
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> >
>
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