"Complicate" = "elucidate the complexity of"

Wed Mar 23 20:36:40 UTC 2011

At 1:55 PM -0400 3/23/11, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>The book I remember (I couldn't read the whole thing) is filled with
>distracting postmodernist puns and weighty (par)en(theses).
>
>That would be enough to alienate this reader, whatever its other qualities.
>
>If I'm in error, I apologize to Prof. Lepore.

If Lepore's book on the Tea Party's rewriting of American History is
anything like her piece on the topic in a recent New Yorker, there's
nothing particularly postmodern or transgressive about it that I
could see.

LH

>On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  -----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>  Subject:      Re: "Complicate" = "elucidate the complexity of"
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  At 3/23/2011 01:21 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  >Isn't Lepore the author of that postmodern look at Puritan savagery?
>>  >
>>  >If so....
>>
>>  If so, what conclusions does one draw about _The Whites of their Eyes_?
>>
>>  If you mean _The Name of War: King Philip's War
>>  and the Origins of American Identity_ (Bancroft
>>  Prize winner), I don't see why you're calling it
>>  "postmodern".  Not in language -- I could
>>  understand it, it is thoroughly historical, and
>>  it doesn't use "problematize".  And it comes down
>>  hard on Indian savagery as well as Puritan,
>>  although perhaps our reaction that it is hard on
>>  the Puritans is due to our (over-simplified)
>>  belief that they were (all) saintly.
>>
>>  Joel
>>
>>
>>  >JL
>>  >
>>  >On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>>  >
>>  > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  > > -----------------------
>>  > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>  > > Subject:      Re: "Complicate" = "elucidate the complexity of"
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  >
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  > >
>>  > > I didn't know there were conservatives and
>>  > > liberals among the modern historians of the 18th
>>  > > and 19th centuries.  (Yes I did, but that's
>>  > > another story.)  Or "light humorists."
>>  > >
>>  > > Victor, this "complicate" came from an invitation
>>  > > to a Newberry Library Eighteenth-Century Seminar,
>>  > > the abstract for which follows my signature.  I
>>  > > doubt that the presentation is aimed at "modern
>>  > > republicans" (even though it will "bear on" the French Revolution).
>>  > >
>>  > > But for a book that *is* aimed at -- well, she
>>  > > calls them "historical fundamentalists", see Jill
>>  > > Lepore's _The Whites of their Eyes: The Tea
>>  > > Party's Revolution and the Battle over American
>>  > > History_ (Princeton Univ. Press, 2010), esp. p. 16.
>>  > >
>>  > > Joel
>>  > >
>>  > > >Professor Goodman seeks to complicate the picture of
>>  nineteenth-century
>>  > > >reactionary aristocrats and modern republicans by bringing an
>>  > > >eighteenth-century perspective to bear on French revolutionary and
>>  > > >post-revolutionary culture and society. Her paper will trace the life
>>  and
>>  > > >career of a boy born less than a decade before the start of the French
>>  > > >Revolution and asks how he became a man-and what kind of a man he
>>  > > >became-through the successive upheavals of French history, from the
>>  > > >Revolution and the Terror through the restoration of the monarchy and
>>  the
>>   > > >regimes that followed. She argues that he became a "new man" of the
>>  > > >nineteenth century only by drawing on family ties and patronage
>>  networks
>>  > > >deeply embedded in the ancien regime of the seventeenth and eighteenth
>>  > > >century.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > At 3/23/2011 01:08 AM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
>>  > > >You, guys, must have missed the research notice from a couple of
>  > months
>>  > > >ago that claimed that conservatives tend to see things in much more
>>  > > >simple terms than liberals. To put it simply, they avoid
>>  complications.
>>  > > >So, my guess is, this was attempt at light humor at the expense of
>>  > > >"modern republicans" who tend to have a very simplistic,
>>  one-dimensional
>>  > > >view of the "Founding Fathers" (and of the French Revolution). As
>>  such,
>>  > > >the reading would have been literal--making things more complicated.
>>  > > >
>>  > > >     VS-)
>>  > > >
>>  > > >On 3/22/2011 10:26 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  > > >>Einstein was sooooooo twentieth century.
>>  > > >>
>>  > > >>Besides which, he was a scientist - not a cultural theorist.
>>  > > >>
>>  > > >>JL
>>  > > >>
>>  > > >>On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Laurence Horn<
>>  laurence.horn at yale.edu
>>  > > >wrote:
>>  > > >>
>>  > > >>>At 10:03 PM -0400 3/22/11, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>>  > > >>> > From an announcement of a forthcoming Newberry Library
>>  > > >>>>Eighteenth-Century Seminar presentation by PROFESSOR DENA GOODMAN:
>>  > > >>>>
>>  > > >>>>Professor Goodman seeks to complicate the picture of
>>  > > >>>>nineteenth-century reactionary aristocrats and modern republicans
>>  by
>>  > > >>>>bringing an eighteenth-century perspective to bear on French
>>  > > >>>>revolutionary and post-revolutionary culture and society.
>>  > > >>>>
>>  > > >>>>I think I'll skip this -- historical life is complicated enough as
>>  it
>>  > > is.
>>  > > >>>>
>>  > > >>>>Joel
>>  > > >>>Isn't this what used to be called (in the good old days)
>>  > > >>>"problematizing" an issue rather than complicating it?  Maybe, since
>>  > > >>>"complicate" has another, somewhat less complicated, use, the term
>>  of
>>  > > >>>art should be "complexitize".  Or "compleximatize".
>>  > > >>>
>>  > > >>>Perhaps Professor Goodman follows the old adage, not quite due to
>>  > > >>>Einstein, dictating that everything should be as complex as it can
>>  > > >>>be, but not more so.
>>  > > >>>
>>  > > >>>LH
>>  > > >
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>>  >
>>  >
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>>  truth."
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