Rum, sodomy, lash; rum, bum, baccer and other expressions

[Jonathan Lighter]

The "bum" was not necessarily homosexual, though. According to a 20th C.
Canadian merchant seaman of the early '40s (via GB): "When you went ashore,
there was the rum, bum and 'baccy girl. She was there for that purpose, she
knew what her job was, she knew it well."

A girl in every port. And vice versa.

(DISCLAIMER: The above comment is intended as satire, not sexism. It
reflects the view of an imaginary speaker who, drawing on the word-play
resources of the English language, might actually utter it
seriously. Complaints should be addressed to English Language Headquarters,
Bangkok, Thailand. Do not send complaints to ADS-L or to the clearly
pseudonymous poster of this message.)

JL




On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Rum, sodomy, lash; rum, bum, baccer and other expressions
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I doubt you'll find any citations that early, Garson.
>
> Before ca1930 the phrase would have been  unprintable  outside of sub rosa
> publications, legal testimony, etc., and its evidently restricted
> circulation would have made a printed appearance even less likely.
>
> Partridge's datings, when not specifically backed by quotes, are mostly
> educated guesses. Not necessarily wrong, mind you; but guesses.
>
> JL
>
> On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: Rum, sodomy, lash; rum, bum, baccer and other
> expressio=
> ns
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > Isn't "rum bum" one thing?
> > DanG
> >
> > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Garson O'Toole
> > <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
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> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Subject:      Rum, sodomy, lash; rum, bum, baccer and other expressions
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> > >
> > > Naval tradition? Monstrous. Nothing but rum, sodomy, prayers, and the
> > lash.
> > >
> > > These words are attributed second-hand to Winston Churchill in a diary
> > > entry dated 1950 as noted in the YBQ. When I looked into this quote a
> > > year ago I tried to find similar expression or precursors. There is an
> > > entry in "A Dictionary of Catch Phrases" edited by Eric Partridge and
> > > Paul Beale for another saying:
> > >
> > > beer, bum and bacca (tobacco).     The reputed, almost legendary,
> > > pleasures of a sailor's life; since c. 1870. Since c. 1910, there has
> > > existed the var. rum, bum and bacca. In C20, usu. baccy, in both
> > > versions. ...
> > >
> > >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=3DjKVNWvTe6RcC&q=3D%22bad+old%22#v=3Ds=
> nippet&
> > >
> > > I have not yet been able to find citations circa 1870 or circa 1910
> > > for these expressions. Perhaps they appear in diaries. Any suggestions
> > > for locating early examples of these expressions?
> > >
> > > Here is an instance that is probably dated 1937 with 'baccer instead
> > > of bacca or baccy.
> > >
> > > Cite: 1937, Witch in the Wilderness by Holdridge Desmond, GB Page 244,
> > > [Quinn & Boden Company, Rahway, New Jersey], Harcourt, Brace and
> > > Company, New York. (Google Books snippet, Not verified on paper; Data
> > > may be inaccurate)
> > >
> > > He turned to the men. "Nothing seems to have happened, but keep your
> > > guns with you. We'll get on with floating this baby=97but no more
> Sunda=
> y
> > > School. When we get her off we'll just leave that bunch right here in
> > > the bushes and take the ship to some island somewhere where we won't
> > > be bothered, and life'll just be rum, bum, and 'baccer."
> > >
> > > http://books.google.com/books?id=3DDEVCAAAAIAAJ&q=3Dbum#search_anchor
> > >
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