Origin of the term "Upstate"

Wed May 18 00:05:08 UTC 2011

Thanks guys,

This is helpful, but I also think I'm looking for something beyond just the
first recorded use.  Something more along the lines of why the expression
was invented / why it became popularized.  Even if its more just folk
history.  Any thoughts?

Chris

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Origin of the term "Upstate"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> And "upstate" refs. to prison in fiction usually alluded to Sing Sing, in
> the town of Ossining (on the Hudson), though there are more "upstate"
> prisons now than long ago.
>
> JL
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > OED doen't realize that "upstate" New York is "up" because it is north of
> > NYC - or north of whatever part of the state the speaker is in.
> >
> > "Downstate" is comparably south,  though without beingoriented to any
> > specific location. "Downstate New York" is a rather odd-sounding phrase
> to
> > me, but "upstate New York" could refer in theory to any place north of
> New
> > York City, though I'd say it's usually restricted to the Hudson Valley
> and
> > immediate environs, western New York being referred unimaginatively to as
> > "Western New York State."
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> >
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> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >> Subject:      Re: Origin of the term "Upstate"
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Do you mean apart from or beyond the OED?  (Whose entries are from
> >> the 1989 edition.)
> >>
> >> upstate, adv., adj. n.
> >>
> >> orig. and chiefly U.S.
> >>  A. adv.
> >>
> >>  1. In that part of a state which is (regarded as) higher than
> >> another, or is more remote from the chief centre. Freq. with
> >> reference to the State of New York.
> >> 1901    in N. Amer. Rev. Feb. 162   American girls..imported from
> >> small towns up-State.
> >> 1938    J. W. Daniels Southerner discovers South 247,   I heard about
> >> it upstate.
> >>
> >> 2. U.S. slang. In prison.
> >> 1934    T. Wilder Heaven's my Destination 23   You get the
> >> strait-jacket..upstate.
> >>
> >> B. adj.
> >>   Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of, an area upstate; situated
> >> upstate, rural; also, designating part of a State remote (esp. north)
> >> from a large city, as upstate New York.
> >> 1901    Daily Chron. 16 Sept. 3/7   All the up-State constituencies.
> >> 1904    Collier's 16 July 16/1   The crews of the up-State college
> >> [Cornell].
> >> 1935    Amer. Speech 10 107   Pronunciation in upstate New York...
> >> Upstate speech has been studied..by three previous investigators.
> >>
> >>  C. n. or ellipt.
> >>   An upstate region; a rural area.
> >> 1965 ...
> >> ----------
> >> downstate
> >>
> >> U.S.
> >>   The part of a State outside a large city, esp. the southern part.
> >> Also as adv.adj. Cf. upstate adv.Used in various parts of the U.S.
> >> with varying local significance.
> >> 1909    Daily Maroon (Chicago) 2 Oct. 1/4   Springer, a husky
> >> full-back from down-state.
> >> 1932    W. Faulkner Light in August iii. 58   She had gone to visit
> >> her people downstate.
> >> ----------
> >>
> >> There are a number of Google Books hits for "upstate" from 1900 to
> >> 1909 that look genuine, all seemingly for New York State.  Some
> >> possibly from 1841, 1850 (by Jacob Abbot, copyright page seen, author
> >> is right period), and 1857, also New York.  Unfortunately, many false
> >> positives, but the number of 1900s instances provide varying context.
> >> ----------
> >>
> >> "Down-state" shows in the 1900s decade also, from New York.  And not
> >> surprisingly from Illinois, as early as 1901 (Public policy: A
> >> journal for the correct understanding of public ..., Volume 5).  Too
> >> many "go down State Street" and "broken down state".
> >>
> >> Joel
> >>
> >> At 5/17/2011 01:49 PM, Chris Wholers wrote:
> >> >This may be one of those questions that doesn't have an answer, but I'm
> >> >trying to figure out if there's any documented origin for the term
> >> "upstate"
> >> >(and "downstate" as well).  Does anyone have any idea where these terms
> >> were
> >> >first used?  Or any hints as to where to look?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Thanks,
> >> >
> >> >Chris
> >> >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
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>
>
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