"fish"; was "moist" (now out of the water?)

[Joel S. Berson]

I would imagine the sense of "fish" = weak players, suckers, prison
newcomers, Civil War rookies, persons brand new and stupid, comes
ultimately from:

Fish, n.1, sense 2.a. "Applied fig. to a person (also collect. to
persons) whom it is desirable to 'catch' or 'hook'." Dates from 1723
(Defoe) and 1753; and to 1885 (recent for OED2).

Joel

At 11/7/2011 10:07 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>On Nov 7, 2011, at 6:45 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
> > Well, Civil War rookies were widely known as "fresh fish," not because
> > of any  moisture but because they were brand-new and stupid.
> >
> > The prison use is almost as old.
>
>I've never spent much time in prison, but at the poker table a fish
>is a weak player, often but not always brand-new, but definitely
>stupid (at poker, if not life).  I always assumed the allusion was
>to being suckers--falling for the dissembling of other players or
>the temptation to overrate one's own hand or ability to play
>it.  But might it instead derive from the prison usage?  (I can't
>check, since my HDAS is home and I'm not.)
>
>LH
> >
> > As a term for women it is considerably more recent. How certain are we
> > of the latterly alleged origin of that usage?
> >
> > JL
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:01 AM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: "moist"
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Laurence Horn
> <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> >>> Pejoratively, women are "fish"
> >>
> >> As are newcomers to prison, whether male or female. as more likely to
> >> become victims victims of intrasexual prison rape than
> >> more-experienced inmates.
> >>
> >> --
> >> -Wilson
> >> -----
> >> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
> >> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >> -Mark Twain
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
> >
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