Quote: Not, sir, from your dictionary (Gilbert Stewart to Samuel Johnson 182[9] [diary entry 1824])

Mon Oct 3 15:36:14 UTC 2011

>
>
> But I do not wish to dissuade someone from looking. (G O'T)
>

You've dissuaded me, since Harvard has only a microfilm, also 1823 to 1836!
 (Joel)

I believe that searches of the digitized 19th C newspapers turn up only at
most 1/3 of what is there to be found.  So it is always worth the effort to
check the full paper, if it's available -- including checking the full-page
scans, which is tiresome, but perhaps less bother than going to the library
across the street to find the microfilm (or, in my case, the library 90
miles to the south).  In this case, the original story was probably printed
in the first week of June or possibly the last week or 10 days of May.

The other day I was looking for a certain public garden in NYC which had
been a venue for ball games in the early 19th C, hoping to find an ad
inviting ball-players to use its grounds or offering the loan of equipment.
 In these decades, newspapers kept track of their advertisers by putting the
date the ad was placed and the number of times it was to run at the bottom,
as "Je 3 1w": "placed June 3, to appear in 6 issues (never on Sunday) .  I
was finding ads with that sort of tag, but only one, when there must have
been 6.  This has frequently been the case.
Many times I find a story that interests me, and gives names.  I search for
the names, to see what more may appear about them; whatever results turn up
frequently do not include the story I had started off from, even though the
name in the original story was perfectly eye-legible, in no way distorted or
faded, and not in odd typography.

Also, with reference to Early American Newspapers/America's Historical
Newspapers & Gale's 19th Century US Newspapers: it is interesting to check
the record of what has actually been digitized.  19CUSN claims to have
digitized two NY Heralds: one from 1802 to 1845 and the other from  from
1830 to 1857.  As it happens, there were no such Heralds throughout those
stretches of years.  There was a Herald in the 1800s, then a very
short-lived Herald in 1830, a Herald was founded that ran until 1924.
Picking the 1830 to 1857 Herald, we find it really covers 1830 and 1835 to
1863; but then we see that it skips 1846, 1851, 1852 and 1862 entirely.
 Picking 1848, we see that it covers January to August of that year only,
though it seems to cover every issue of those months.  Picking 1854, we see
that it covers January and April only, and specifically, only January 14 and
April 8 only.  The file of Heralds 1802 to 1845 covers only a Herald of
1802-1803 and 5 Extra Editions of the great Herald, 2 from 1840, 2 from 1843
and 1 from 1845.
Some call this misrepresentation; others call it marketing.

So if we do a search on these databases, we can't suppose the results show
every report to appear in the papers we suppose are being searched.  If the
topic is important, and it is feasible, we should scan the original.

GAT

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

> At 10/3/2011 06:06 AM, Garson O'Toole wrote:
>
>> Joel S. Berson wrote:
>> > Garson's find will, I'm sure, be of more than a little interest to
>> > Johnsonites, and I will pass it on.
>>
>> Thanks for your response, Joel. I agree with you that the article
>> probably appeared earlier in the Salem Observer. In fact, there was
>> another cite dated June 09, 1829 that contained a reprint of the story
>> with the explicit title "From the Salem Observer". Here are the cite
>> details:
>>
>> Date: June 09, 1829
>> Paper: Eastern Argus
>> Article: From the Salem Observer
>> Page: 2
>> Column: 2
>> Location: Maine
>> (GenealogyBank)
>>
>
> A definite attribution to the Salem Observer might reinforce a
> Johnsonite's -- Or Gilbert Stuartite's -- confidence in their
> supposition as to who wrote the diary.
>
>
>  The Salem Observer is available in the GenealogyBank database, and so
>> I was excited and then disappointed when all my searches failed to
>> find the earlier article. In fact, the issue coverage in the relevant
>> time period seemed remarkably sparse. NewsBank owns GenealogyBank and
>> Readex: America's Historical Newspapers. The database content overlaps
>> because the same digital scans are used sometimes I believe. The
>> ReadEx website seems to say that the number of available issues in the
>> database for the Salem Observer is very small:
>>
>> Salem Observer of Salem, MA has only 31 digitized issues between
>> 1823-12-20 and 1836-07-23.
>>
>> But I do not wish to dissuade someone from looking.
>>
>
> You've dissuaded me, since Harvard has only a microfilm, also 1823 to 1836!
>
> Joel
>
>
>  Garson
>> (And thanks for fixing the year in the article title to the correct
>> value of 1829.)
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> > Subject:      Re: Quote: Not, sir, from your dictionary (Gilbert Stewart
>> to
>> >              Samuel Johnson 182[9] [diary entry 1824])
>> >
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> -------------------
>> >
>> > Garson's find will, I'm sure, be of more than a little interest to
>> > Johnsonites, and I will pass it on.  (I had not specifically looked
>> > for the earliest occurrence of the tale, since I was interested in
>> > something written about it in 1914, and I only looked in Google Books.)
>> >
>> > Fred, does "not Sir from your dictionary" belong in the YBQ?
>> >
>> > I see that the Newport Mercury is also available in Early American
>> > Newspapers (NKA - now known as - America's Historical Newspapers),
>> > and can confirm Garson's extract from its scan.  The portion Garson
>> > omitted explains Stuart's "irritation" -- Johnson had originally
>> > directed a question to Stuart addressing him as "My little fellow"!
>> >
>> > One might hypothesize that the tale can be found a little earlier in
>> > the Salem Observer (which I learn is in EAN Series 7), since the
>> > Newport Mercury article begins with an attribution to "a friend of
>> > the editor of the Salem Observer."  But my newspaper access is
>> > limited from home.
>> >
>> > Joel
>> >
>> > At 10/1/2011 08:48 PM, Garson O'Toole wrote:
>> >>Joel S. Berson asked about a citation to an anecdote involving the
>> >>dictionary maker Samuel Johnson and the American painter Gilbert
>> >>Stewart aka Gilbert Stuart. The partial information that Joel gave led
>> >>to a citation in 1834. I have now located an interesting earlier
>> >>citation in 1829. This newspaper article purports to reprint a diary
>> >>entry dated October 11th, 1824. (Joel may already have this
>> >>information.)
>> >>
>> >>Date: 1829 June 6
>> >>Paper: Newport Mercury
>> >>Article: Miscellany
>> >>Page: 1
>> >>Column: 3
>> >>(GenealogyBank)
>> >>
>> >><Begin excerpt>
>> >>Dr. Johnson and Gilbert Stewart, the American Painter.-A friend of the
>> >>editor of the Salem Observer, who was intimately acquainted with the
>> >>late celebrated painter, Gilbert Stewart, (formerly of this Town) has
>> >>furnished him, from his diary, with the following interesting anecdote
>> >>relative to Stewart's introduction to Dr. Samuel Johnson. It deserves
>> >>a place among the memorabilia which Boswell has preserved of this
>> >>great man :-
>> >>
>> >>"Oct. 11th, 1824. - I this day visited that eminent painter, Mr.
>> >>Stewart, whose excellent portraits have conferred an honor on the
>> >>country that gave him birth. In the course of conversation, I inquired
>> >>of him if he had ever been, while in London, acquainted with Dr.
>> >>Johnson! He replied that he had, and that their acquaitance commenced
>> >>with something like a quarrel.
>> >>
>> >><Text omitted. Skipping closer to the punchline.>
>> >>
>> >>When I had finished speaking, the Doctor asked Mr. West how it
>> >>happened that the Americans excelled the English in speaking their own
>> >>language. Mr. West then asked the Doctor if it could be so? To which
>> >>the Doctor replied, "You may find, Sir, that it is so from the
>> >>conversation of this gentleman." The Doctor immediately turned to me,
>> >>and asked from what source I had derived my knowledge of the English
>> >>language? Not yet having got over my irritation, I replied, "Not Sir
>> >>from your Dictionary," The Doctor now burst in so violent a fit of
>> >>laughter, that he shook the whole room, and almost the house. Ever
>> >>after this we were on the best terms."
>> >><End excerpt>
>> >>
>> >>As always, please double-check this text against the scans (or
>> the original).
>> >>Garson
>> >>
>> >>----------------------------**------------------------------**--
>> >>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>> > ------------------------------**------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
George A. Thompson
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ.
Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.

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