fun with phrases

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Thu Oct 6 23:28:49 UTC 2011 

"Suddenly, the rules had changed."

Not usu. "rules" but conditions, common practice, etc. Another dramatic
rhetorical cliche'.

Nothing in GB before 1991. Nothing in Time archives.

JL

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "We are not so very different, you and I"
>
> Said oleaginously by villain to hero.
>
> GB has the phrase from 1901, 1907, 1908 but it doesn't become common, and
> doesn't get sinister, till the '80s or '90s.
>
> JL
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Now you're talking my language.
> >
> > I also like the simple melodrama of  "The Man who Won World War II," "How
> > the Irish Saved Civilization," "How the Greeks Created Western
> > Civilization," "How the Scotch-Irish Shaped America,"  "How My Father and
> > President Kennedy Saved the World" (an article by Sergey Khrushchev),
> "How
> > to Stuff a Wild Bikini."
> >
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > "would never be the same again"
> > >
> > > Guess what? No 19th C. hits in GB. Upwards of a zillion words of
> running
> > > text, and nobody thought to write or (perhaps) say the phrase.  For any
> > > reason.
> > >
> > > I'm interested in dramatic expository exx., as when PBS says that,
> thanks
> > > to
> > > the recent efforts of a group of Bosnian activists, "the rules of war
> > would
> > > never be the same again."
> > >
> > > So a trivial ex. from Time in 1950 (a vague "it" is the subject) hardly
> > > counts.
> > >
> > > However, one from June 11, 1951, surely counts: "Between industrialism
> > and
> > > the effects of the Napoleonic wars, England would never be the same
> > again."
> > >
> > > From then on, Time has used the cliche' often.
> > >
> > > In GB the first unequivocally momentous ex. is not till 1972: "But
> major
> > > writers knew instinctively that drama would never be the same again."
> > >
> > > After that, steady use everywhere.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > "(and) changed the rules of X forever."
> > > >
> > > > A favorite of TV documentaries. Almost needless to say: no 19th C.
> hits
> > > at
> > > > GB.
> > > >
> > > > Earliest at GB is allegedly from the _Atlantic_ in 1987 (snippet not
> > > > verified):
> > > >
> > > > "They simply went on doing what they did best =E2=80=94 quizzes, long
> > > > dinne=
> > > > rs,
> > > > longer cocktail parties =E2=80=94 until a series of unrelated events
> > > > *chang=
> > > > ed the
> > > > rules of their beloved game forever*."
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Victor Steinbok <
> aardvark66 at gmail.com
> > > > >wrote=
> > > > :
> > > >
> > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > > -----------------------
> > > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > > Poster:       Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > > Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > > ------
> > > > >
> > > > > I am assuming you're jesting on both A and B (I take it, it's meant
> > to
> > > > > be a parody on Yiddish jokes). "Sausage" is "kie=C5=82basa" and
> > > > diminutiv=
> > > > e
> > > > > for "cat" is "kicia", not "kishka". The Russian diminutive for
> "cat"
> > is
> > > > > "kisia", which is pronounced nearly the same, or "kiska", which is
> > > > > similar, but not identical to "kishka". Neither has any connection
> to
> > > > > "kishka" (Russian) or "kiszka" (Polish), other than one's gut is
> used
> > > > > for various purposes (e.g., strings for musical instruments) and
> the
> > > > > other is wrapped in gut. As such, my sense of humor fails me with
> > > > > respect to this fanciful dialog. Perhaps it's the amount of sleep I
> > got
> > > > > last night with cats jumping all over me... or the kie=C5=82basa I
> > ate
> > > > > earlier...
> > > > >
> > > > > VS-)
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/4/2011 8:55 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 8:41 PM, Victor Steinbok<
> > aardvark66 at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > >> "kishka" is Slavic>>Yiddish for "gut" or
> > > > > >> "intestines".
> > > > > > A. "Kishka'?! Why have you named your kitten "Intestine"?
> > > > > > B. It's not named "Intestine." "Kishka" means *sausage" in
> Polish.
> > > > > > It's named "Sausage," because it's such a fat little thing."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   "Un faux ami," as the French say.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > -Wilson
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --=20
> > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > > truth."
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
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> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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