name regret

Sat Oct 15 13:53:18 UTC 2011

What seems "cool" to the namer may seem godawful to the namee just a
few years later.

When I was a boy, I was the only "Jonathan" in sight. (Except - very
obscurely - Jonathan Logan). It was no fun.

I was often told too that my middle name, "Evan," still more obscure,
was "a girl's name."  (Maybe because back then "Ellen" was rather more
popular than it is today. For girls.) This news was usually followed
by exaggerated kid-laughter.

Now, of course, "Jonathan" and "Evan" have both emerged from the
shadows.  (For some reason, people now want to like spell the former
with a two "o's" :  Jonathon Green appears boldly to have pioneered
this approach.)

JL

On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Michael Newman
<michael.newman at qc.cuny.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Michael Newman <michael.newman at QC.CUNY.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: name regret
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I checked the vid. It's there.
> Michael Newman
> Associate Professor of Linguistics
> Queens College/CUNY
> michael.newman at qc.cuny.edu
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: name regret
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> The video is no longer available.
>>
>> Amongst the colored, there is no concept of "cool" or "uncool," when
>> it comes to names. Cf., e.g., names like Dingwall Fleary, Haile [pron.
>> "Haley"] Selassie Clay, Harry Balls, Giovanni Dennis, Davidica McLain,
>> Faye Everett, Leondas Rambo, all of them male, the names in no way a
>> problem for their bearers.
>>
>> OTOH, some European surnames, like "Hoogstraet," are
>> side-splittingly-funny, in the 'hood.
>>
>> WRT the surname, "Bobo," I have cousins bearing that name and have
>> worked alongside Chicanos so named.
>>
>> --
>> -Wilson
>> -----
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> -Mark Twain
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 3:36 AM, Michael Newman
>> <michael.newman at qc.cuny.edu> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: Â  Â  Â  Michael Newman <michael.newman at QC.CUNY.EDU>
>>> Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: name regret
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> That's true of course. The Vietnamese names Dung and Phouc being great =
>>> examples, although the first is pronounced /d=CA=92=CA=8A=C5=8B/, the =
>>> spelling being the problem in English. However, there are cultural =
>>> differences in terms of naming conventions that are not necessarily =
>>> linguistic confusions and can create difficulties for people bearing =
>>> names. I met one guy in the DR called Stalin, pronounced of course, =
>>> /etal=CB=9Ci/ but named after the dictator (I don't know if his brother =
>>> was Trotsky), and he is not alone there. This tendency to creativity in =
>>> naming practices as well as a kind of naive desire for names that are =
>>> icons of power gives rise, I suspect, to the urban legend (I hope) of =
>>> the baby named "Usnavy," after some passing destroyer or aircraft =
>>> carrier.=20
>>>
>>> On this point, check out this viral video from a few years ago, passed =
>>> on to me (i should note by some Black students):
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DpCdmiZyyGjQ=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Newman
>>> Associate Professor of Linguistics
>>> Queens College/CUNY
>>> michael.newman at qc.cuny.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2011, at 11:58 PM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header =
>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster: Â  Â  Â  Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: name regret
>>>> =
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> -----
>>>> =20
>>>> There is a difference between being "oddly named" when transcending
>>>> linguistic and/or cultural boundaries (e.g., Bobo would sound OK in =
>>> some
>>>> African countries, but would be an absolute taboo in South =
>>> America--and
>>>> this is not a hypothetical example!) and the names deliberately picked
>>>> by parent to be odd. The former is "accidental" oddity (like to
>>>> apocryphal confusion over Chevy Nova). The latter is not. I once had a
>>>> student named Euclid Moon. Moon was not his surname--he had NO =
>>> surname.
>>>> Of course, this did not stop the registrar or others from using "Moon"
>>>> as the family name. Two years earlier, I had another student whose =
>>> given
>>>> name was Euclid, but he was from Nigeria. Somehow, that did not sound =
>>> as
>>>> odd...
>>>> =20
>>>> BTW, I don't see what's so odd about Ronald Reagan Jones, especially
>>>> since he has every opportunity to avoid using his middle name with
>>>> regularity (Ronald R. Jones may be uncool, but that's because it's so
>>>> plain). It's no more odd or uncool than name combinations than include
>>>> George Washington or Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Payne as First+Middle.
>>>> "Uncool" is also relative--both individually and temporally. And it's =
>>> no
>>>> more dorky to name kids after politicians than naming kids after =
>>> Madonna
>>>> or any other entertainer du jour, hockey or basketball teams, dead or
>>>> living relatives or inanimate objects. Frank Zappa had the right =
>>> idea...
>>>> (My sons' middle names are Rembrandt and Jonas with no connection to =
>>> any
>>>> living or dead people or fictional characters--no, seriously, not =
>>> named
>>>> after THE Rembrandt, no matter what others might think! Their Hebrew
>>>> names, on the other hand... Let's just say, Trahdyshun!)
>>>> =20
>>>> Â  Â  VS-)
>>>> =20
>>>> On Oct 14, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Ronald Butters wrote:
>>>>> What percent regret the dorky name that they gave their children?
>>>>> (E.g., RONALD REAGAN JONES might cause his parents to have deep
>>>>> remorse for inflicting such an uncool name on one who grew up to be a
>>>>> trendy professor of literature at Yale.)
>>>> =20
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