fun with phrases

Sun Sep 18 22:47:15 UTC 2011

Believe it or not, Alger's heroes all seem to succeed through the
intervention of rich zillionaires who recognize their worth, rather than
through "recreating/redefining/re-inventing" themselves or even solely
through hard work.

Anyway, it's one thing to "succeed": you're still you, just richer.

When you "redefine," though, the emphasis seems to be that other people will
see you in a better light, but overall success might still elude you. When
you "re-invent," you *are* different, but once again, success isn't
guaranteed. (You may have to re-invent yourself several times.)  These
nuances seem have been nearly unknown until recently.

Maybe they're distinctions without a difference, but they intrigue me.

JL

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> What about the popularity of 'self-instructors" in the 19th century?
> Both the Horatio Alger stories and the overall immigrant experience
> are about the idea of self-reinvention, even if the phrase is not
> used. Instead, people were said to be "self-made".
>
> DanG
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The concepts are similar, but "recreating yourself" in 1912 was not an
> idea
> > commonly mentioned in print as "redefining" and "reinventing" yourself
> > became many decades later - to the point, in fact, of becoming cliche's.
> >
> > Here's another:
> >
> > 1st CNN anchor: How are you doin' today?
> > 2nd CNN anchor [humorously]: Just livin' the dream here in Atlanta,
> Georgia.
> >
> > To "live the dream": to be ecstatically happy with one's social,
> financial
> > or professional success or general existence.
> >
> > This is pretty new too, but well known. The defining characteristic is
> the
> > lack of previous specification of what the "dream" might be. In the
> cliche',
> > everybody knows it's very broad indeed and closely connected with social
> and
> > financial contentment.
> >
> > Searches are difficult, but it looks like the free-floating,
> > non-contextually specified phrase doesn't turn up till the late '60s and
> > doesn't become common for five or ten more years. (There is at least one
> > '50s ex., but the nature of the "dream" - a missionary's - was first
> > specified.)
> >
> > What's it prove? Don't know. Who cares? Don't know that either. Does it
> > "provide a linguistic index to American culture," as popular books on
> > language used to say?  What's *that* mean?
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Garson O'Toole
> > <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Here is some "psychobabble" in 1912 that includes the phrase "create
> >> yourself anew", and discusses the theme of remaking yourself
> >> psychologically in a chapter called "The Subconscious".
> >>
> >> Cite: 1912, Human Efficiency: A Psychological Study of Modern Problems
> >> by Horatio W. Dresser, Chapter 5: The Subconscious, Page 123, G. P.
> >> Putnam's Sons, New York. (Google Books full view)
> >>
> >> <Begin short exert>
> >> You wish to create yourself anew in wiser fashion so that the ideals
> >> of to-day shall constitute the habitual self of to-morrow. Thus you
> >> endeavour to outwit your own consciousness by giving your activity
> >> more resolutely to the ideal, refusing to own these miserable moods
> >> and emotions through which you betray fear, anger, jealousy,
> >> resentment, and the like.
> >> <End excerpt>
> >>
> >> More can be read by following this link:
> >>
> >>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=DLUZAAAAMAAJ&q=%22create+yourself%22#v=snippet&
> >>
> >>  Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> > Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >> Or are you suggesting that the application to "self" is
> >> > something that's never been used before?
> >> >
> >> > My tentative answer is yes. The essential attitudes behind these
> phrases
> >> may
> >> > be ancient, even as applied to people (though I'm not sure of that),
> but
> >> if
> >> > so their reduction to simple, easily recalled, and frequently uttered
> >> > cliche's really does seem new.
> >> >
> >> > Think about it: "redefine yourself" - what exactly does that mean?
> >> Overhaul
> >> > much of your personality for some psychological or social benefit?
> That
> >> > seems like a late 20th C. idea to me. Did pre-Freudian generations
> even
> >> > consider that one could do that, even if one wanted to? And why would
> you
> >> > want to? If you simply switched jobs, for ex., you were still defined
> as
> >> > you. Nowadays, maybe not.  "Redefine" also seems to suggest the
> effective
> >> > power of pure image-making - surely a (?mid-)20th C. notion.
> >> >
> >> > "Reinvent" is similar but suggests getting completely outside yourself
> to
> >> do
> >> > it. The word once had somewhat negative associations, since people
> were
> >> > sometimes warned "You don't need to reinvent the wheel."
> >> >
> >> > "Don't let the past determine your future": less radical, but again
> >> reduced
> >> > by centuries of philosophical and psychological thought into handy,
> >> > apothegmatic form. It also suggests the possibility - in fact the
> >> likelihood
> >> > - that one can make a huge change in one's life despite past
> influences.
> >>  It
> >> > seems to presuppose, however, that one is at the mercy of the past
> right
> >> up
> >> > until one chooses to fight back.   I believe the accepted pre-Freudian
> >> idea
> >> > was that free will and will power made nonsense of any personal
> >> historical
> >> > determinism.
> >> >
> >> > (Personal biological determinism, however, - like being born into "bad
> >> > family" - was believed to be a very real force that might be
> conquered,
> >> only
> >> > rarely, through extraordinary will power. Lincoln was derided as a
> >> "gorilla"
> >> > because he came from the far frontier, looked strange, and had a
> socially
> >> > disapproved accent - which, to the elite, implied stupidity: his rise
> >> "from
> >> > log cabin to White House" seemed astonishing. Something similar had
> been
> >> > true of Robert Burns, from rural Scotland.)
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, it's the conciseness and clarity of the recent phrases, and
> the
> >> now
> >> > blandly familiar assumptions that allow their everyday expression,
> that I
> >> > find striking. Maybe I should join another list.
> >> >
> >> > JL
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 1:49 PM, victor steinbok <
> aardvark66 at gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> -----------------------
> >> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >> Poster:       victor steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> >> Subject:      Re: fun with phrases
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >> Not to mention the fact the the slogan of the 2008 presidential
> campaign
> >> >> was
> >> >> "Change", which is, in part, the same metaphor.
> >> >>
> >> >> Of course, there were a few similar ones along the way:
> >> >>
> >> >> "This is not your [grand]father's Oldsmobile"
> >> >>
> >> >> Still, I am compelled to ask: Is it really new or just a
> >> transmogrification
> >> >> of some other cliche from 1932? (or even 1832?)
> >> >>
> >> >> There have always been two opposite direction for any
> "progress"--expand
> >> on
> >> >> your predecessor vs. start anew. This is just conservatism vs. the
> >> >> revolutionary. Or are you suggesting that the application to "self"
> is
> >> >> something that's never been used before?
> >> >>
> >> >> VS-)
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> >> >> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Within minutes of each other I've encountered three fairly "recent"
> >> >> cliches
> >> >> > that got me to wondering.  All three are now frequently heard (at
> >> least
> >> >> in
> >> >> > my world), but there was a time - in my own lifetime - when they
> never
> >> >> > were.
> >> >> > In theory, anybody since the rollout of EModE around 1600 could
> have
> >> >> > uttered
> >> >> > these words spontaneously, but if they did no one was paying much
> >> >> > attention.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So I did a quick GB search.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > FWIW:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "redefine yourself": 1966, but not common for a decade.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "reinvent yourself": 1969, but ditto.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Don't let the past determine your future" : 2000.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "So what?" you say. "These things merely reflect the self-help
> crazes
> >> of
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > age."
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Precisely. Nobody was thinking these things in 1932 and now a
> hundred
> >> >> > million people are. That suggests a significant cultural change
> >> >> > encapsulated
> >> >> > in just a handful of words.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Stay tuned.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > JL
> >> >>
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> >> >
> >> > --
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> >> truth."
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
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> >
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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