Maddened by Mad Men

[Dan Goncharoff]

Given we are talking about a fort in a clearly non-fort context, the
acceptance of that fort imagery in combination with the irritation at
the inclusion of the word 'down' in a well-used phrase is
awe-striking!

DanG




On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Hunter, Lynne R CIV
SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 71700 <lynne.hunter at navy.mil> wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Hunter, Lynne R CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 71700"
>              <lynne.hunter at NAVY.MIL>
> Subject:      Re: Maddened by Mad Men
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me (without having
> carefully thought this out) that "holding down" is generally used to
> mean something like "to retain [something]" or "keep [something] in
> place," so in the case under scrutiny, "holding down the fort" would
> seem to suggest just holding the fort in place or keeping it intact in a
> general sort of way, whereas "holding the fort" suggests "holding ground
> [against an adversary]," and is linked (in my mind, anyway) to "holding
> off invaders," "holding back an onslaught," "holding out against the
> enemy," a castle "stronghold," and so forth. In other words, "hold the
> fort" (to me) implies the idea of defending against an aggressor.
> Thoughts?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of Shapiro, Fred
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 13:57
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Maddened by Mad Men
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Poster:       "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Maddened by Mad Men
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> Isn't this just an example of the phrasal verb "to hold down,"
> documented by the OED back to 1891 and by now well established in
> phrases such as "to hold down a job"?
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:46 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Maddened by Mad Men
>
> Recent annoyance from _Mad Men_: "Miss Holloway can hold down the fort."
> "Hold _down_ the fort" is irritating enough in the present day (at least
> to my particular ear) without its being ascribed to 1962 speakers. (The
> phrase conjures up a flighty outpost flimsily moored to some low-gravity
> planet.)
>
> Lynne Hunter
>
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