Maddened by Mad Men

[Hunter, Lynne R CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 71700]

Does this mean you're also OK with people talking about light bulbs
"going _off_" in their heads (when they don't intend to say that it's
even darker in there than it was before)?

-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
Of ronbutters at AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 18:56
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Maddened by Mad Men

---------------------- Information from the mail header
-----------------------

Poster:       ronbutters at AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Maddened by Mad Men
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------

This is what is called an "idiom." It does not have to make literal
sense, any more than "kick the bucket does." Or, for that matter, "Shut
up."

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:43 PM, "Hunter, Lynne R CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC,
71700"<lynne.hunter at NAVY.MIL> wrote:

> I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me (without having
> carefully thought this out) that "holding down" is generally used to
> mean something like "to retain [something]" or "keep [something] in
> place," so in the case under scrutiny, "holding down the fort" would
> seem to suggest just holding the fort in place or keeping it intact in
a
> general sort of way, whereas "holding the fort" suggests "holding
ground
> [against an adversary]," and is linked (in my mind, anyway) to
"holding
> off invaders," "holding back an onslaught," "holding out against the
> enemy," a castle "stronghold," and so forth. In other words, "hold the
> fort" (to me) implies the idea of defending against an aggressor.
> Thoughts?
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 13:57
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Maddened by Mad Men
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Poster:       "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Maddened by Mad Men
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> Isn't this just an example of the phrasal verb "to hold down,"
> documented by the OED back to 1891 and by now well established in
> phrases such as "to hold down a job"?
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:46 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Maddened by Mad Men
>
> Recent annoyance from _Mad Men_: "Miss Holloway can hold down the
fort."
> "Hold _down_ the fort" is irritating enough in the present day (at
least
> to my particular ear) without its being ascribed to 1962 speakers.
(The
> phrase conjures up a flighty outpost flimsily moored to some
low-gravity
> planet.)
>
> Lynne Hunter
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org