Off and on

[Laurence Horn]

On Sep 21, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Ron Butters wrote:

> Apparently, you get off on worying about the putatively logical inconsistencies of language.
> How can anyone who sets off on a trip ever get there? How can anyone break wind or bad news? Why is an oversight committee not a committee to rectify peoples' oversights?

There's always the one about why we drive on parkways and park on driveways.

LH
>
> Or maybe you are just putting us on about expressions that put you off.
>
> Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4GLTE
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Hunter, Lynne R CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 71700 <lynne.hunter at NAVY.MIL>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 6:30:08 AM GMT-0700
> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Maddened by Mad Men
>
> Does this mean you're also OK with people talking about light bulbs
> "going _off_" in their heads (when they don't intend to say that it's
> even darker in there than it was before)?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of ronbutters at AOL.COM
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 18:56
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Maddened by Mad Men
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
>
> Poster:       ronbutters at AOL.COM
> Subject:      Re: Maddened by Mad Men
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> This is what is called an "idiom." It does not have to make literal
> sense, any more than "kick the bucket does." Or, for that matter, "Shut
> up."
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:43 PM, "Hunter, Lynne R CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC,
> 71700"<lynne.hunter at NAVY.MIL> wrote:
>
>> I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me (without having
>> carefully thought this out) that "holding down" is generally used to
>> mean something like "to retain [something]" or "keep [something] in
>> place," so in the case under scrutiny, "holding down the fort" would
>> seem to suggest just holding the fort in place or keeping it intact in
> a
>> general sort of way, whereas "holding the fort" suggests "holding
> ground
>> [against an adversary]," and is linked (in my mind, anyway) to
> "holding
>> off invaders," "holding back an onslaught," "holding out against the
>> enemy," a castle "stronghold," and so forth. In other words, "hold the
>> fort" (to me) implies the idea of defending against an aggressor.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 13:57
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Maddened by Mad Men
>>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Poster:       "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: Maddened by Mad Men
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>>
>> Isn't this just an example of the phrasal verb "to hold down,"
>> documented by the OED back to 1891 and by now well established in
>> phrases such as "to hold down a job"?
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:46 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Maddened by Mad Men
>>
>> Recent annoyance from _Mad Men_: "Miss Holloway can hold down the
> fort."
>> "Hold _down_ the fort" is irritating enough in the present day (at
> least
>> to my particular ear) without its being ascribed to 1962 speakers.
> (The
>> phrase conjures up a flighty outpost flimsily moored to some
> low-gravity
>> planet.)
>>
>> Lynne Hunter
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org