Hitler quote (UNCLASSIFIED)

Thu Sep 22 16:50:42 UTC 2011

Stalin a Democrat?  Can we really know what lay deep, deep, deep, deep
within his heart?

JL

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       ronbutters at AOL.COM
> Subject:      Re: Hitler quote (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yeah, and how long have we be hearing that Stalin was a Democrat? What is
> the "class warfare" slur but an absurd attempt to tie O'Bama et al. to
> Marxist-Leninist ideology?
>
> Of course, purely political zingers are perhaps a bit outside the mission
> statement of ADS-L. Not that relevance to linguistic issues is of concern to
> a large portion of the postings here.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 21, 2011, at 4:23 PM, "David A. Daniel" <dad at POKERWIZ.COM> wrote:
>
> > Hear, hear. What he said.
> > DAD
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> >
> > Beyond the scope--I can see that. Beneath the dignity? Not really. Note
> tha=
> > t
> > DAD did not refer to Republicans as Nazis--he said Hitler was a
> Republican.
> > Perhaps it's subtle, but there IS a difference. Similarly, identifying
> > someone's propaganda tactics as resembling those of Goebbels does not
> imply
> > that there is an identification of the respective persons. Saying someone
> > has a "Hitlerian appeal" is not saying that someone is Hitler--in fact,
> thi=
> > s
> > does not compare the ideologies in the slightest. The first time I saw a
> > reference to "Hitlerian appeal" in the news was when a NH newspaper
> > described Gary Hart's campaign. It was not meant to be a term of
> > derision--but it did point out that Hart supporters were extremely
> devoted
> > without really knowing why. When asked to describe what Hart stood for,
> mos=
> > t
> > floundered... or is it "foundered"?
> >
> > Interestingly, as a non-native speaker, for a long time I've been
> wondering
> > if there is a difference between founder and flounder, as well as forms
> and
> > derivatives. I've mostly used "flounder", considering "founder" to be
> > /bookish/.  It's not an eggcorn--at least, not in at least 400 years, if
> yo=
> > u
> > believe the OED. But what is described there as foundering or floundering
> I
> > would describe as thrashing [about]. When I hear flounder, I am not
> thinkin=
> > g
> > about a "violent stumble", but rather being lost, hesitant, obstructed in
> > one's goals by own inability, ineptitude or indecision, progressing
> clumsil=
> > y
> > or not at all, failing to reach a goal and wandering aimlessly instead.
> > Whatever it is, it does not sound "violent" to me. Is that a question of
> > degree or there a more fundamental (etymological pun intended)
> difference.
> >
> > Macmillan D has more basic definitions that point that my understanding
> of
> > f(l)oundering may be off:
> >
> > =E2=96=B8 verb:  stumble and nearly fall ("The horses foundered")
> >> =E2=96=B8 verb:  sink below the surface
> >> =E2=96=B8 verb:  fail utterly; collapse ("The project foundered")
> >> =E2=96=B8 verb:  break down, literally or metaphorically
> >
> >
> > AHD is similar:
> >
> > *  To sink below the surface of the water: The ship struck a reef and
> >> foundered.
> >> *  To cave in; sink: The platform swayed and then foundered.
> >> *  To fail utterly; collapse: a marriage that soon foundered.
> >> *  To stumble, especially to stumble and go lame. Used of horses.
> >> *  To become ill from overeating. Used of livestock.
> >> *  To be afflicted with laminitis. Used of horses.
> >
> >
> > MWOLD is much more concise:
> >
> > : to become disabled; especially : to go lame
> >> : to give way : collapse
> >
> >
> > Going in reverse on "flounder":
> >
> > : to struggle to move or obtain footing : thrash about wildly
> >> : to proceed or act clumsily or ineffectually
> >
> >
> > So far, it looks like my personal usage fits "flounder" exactly and
> > "founder" not at all!
> >
> > AHD:
> >
> > *  To make clumsy attempts to move or regain one's balance.
> >> *  To move or act clumsily and in confusion. See Synonyms at blunder.
> See
> >> Usage Note at founder1.
> >> ETYMOLOGY:
> >> Probably alteration of founder1
> >> Usage Note:
> >> The verbs founder and flounder are often confused. Founder comes from a
> >> Latin word meaning "bottom" (as in foundation) and originally referred
> to
> >> knocking enemies down; it is now also used to mean "to fail utterly,
> >> collapse." Flounder means "to move clumsily, thrash about," and hence
> "to
> >> proceed in confusion." If John is foundering in Chemistry 1, he had
> bette=
> > r
> >> drop the course; if he is floundering, he may yet pull through.
> >
> >
> > And Macmillan:
> >
> > =E2=96=B8 verb:  to feel confused and not know what to say or do next
> >> Maureen floundered, trying to think of a response.
> >> =E2=96=B8 verb:  to move with great difficulty and in an uncontrolled
> way
> >> The horses were floundering in the deep snow.
> >> =E2=96=B8 verb:  to experience difficulties and be likely to fail
> >> The country=E2=80=99s economy is floundering and the future is
> uncertain.
> >
> >
> > I don't see the OED making quite as radical a distinction. But that's not
> > too surprising as the latest quotation between the two is from 1893.
> >
> > VS-)
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC <
> > Bill.Mullins at us.army.mil> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> One doesn't have to be a Republican (and I'm not) to find DAD's comment
> >> to be beneath the dignity of this list.
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> >> Behalf Of
> >>> David A. Daniel
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:56 AM
> >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>> Subject: Re: Hitler quote
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>>
> >>> Hmph. Hitler was a Republican? Not a surprise.
> >>> DAD
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org