early "gay" cite

George Thompson george.thompson at NYU.EDU
Thu Sep 22 20:47:24 UTC 2011 

J. C.'s column on the back page of TLS, September 2, 2011, devotes 4
paragraphs to a sale catalog from Natalie Galustian Rare Books, London: They
Were What They Were: Early Gay Fiction, 1862-1960.  The catalogue was
compiled by Neil Pearson.

http://www.nataliegalustian.com/theyWereWhatTheyWere.pdf

It's arranged in categories, not chronologically, and I haven't had time yet
to look it over to see whether it includes any items from before the 1940s
not already known that are likely to offer gay lingo.
The prices asked run up to 1750 quid.
If any seem a likely source, no doubt one of us will be ready to buy in
support of philological research.  If not, perhaps there are other copies in
public institutions.

GAT


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> > It's not exactly a leap to suppose that a word that was around in 1941
> was
> =
> already known to some people in 1938.
>
> That's really the most one can say with assurance, especially since we're
> talking about gay show-biz people.
>
> Because of the new "go gay" information, not available in 1994, I'm less
> sure now that Grant intended "gay" in its 1941+ meaning. The upshot is that
> when Oxford gets around to finishing up HDAS, brackets should be added to
> the quote.
>
> Meanwhile, stocks plunge, and Rick Perry doesn't mention that conditions in
> Texas might be a heavenly sign concerning his political ambitions. Kind of
> puts it all into perspective for me.
>
> JL
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Baker, John <JBAKER at stradley.com> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Baker, John" <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: early "gay" cite
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >                I suspect that the dog-whistle theory of Cary Grant's
> state=
> > ment is not just unproven and unrefuted, but unprovable and unrefutable.
> >
> >
> >
> >                "Go gay" has been a phrase in English since at least the
> 16=
> > th century, though it has never been common.  In the 19th and early 20th
> > ce=
> > nturies, it meant to be hedonistic or dissipated (except when applied to
> a
> > =
> > woman, when it meant she was a prostitute).  I haven't seen it, but there
> > w=
> > as a 1931 British novel by Rodney Stuart Burton with the title Gone Gay:
> >  A=
> >  Romance of Modern Days.  The cover featured an attractive woman in a
> > low-c=
> > ut dress, holding a martini or champagne glass (it's hard to tell which
> > fro=
> > m the picture at
> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gone-Gay-Rodney-Stuart-Burton/dp/B=
> > 004NTDTQG).  So it's entirely plausible that Grant meant that he had
> > sudden=
> > ly become a dissolute partier, and presumably that's what the director
> > thou=
> > ght he meant.
> >
> >
> >
> >                On the other hand, we know that by 1941 the modern use of
> "=
> > gay" was extant, though we don't know whether or not Grant knew about it.
> >  =
> > It's not exactly a leap to suppose that a word that was around in 1941
> was
> > =
> > already known to some people in 1938.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Baker
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]<mailto:
> > [mail=
> > to:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]> On Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:33 PM
> >
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >
> > Subject: Re: early "gay" cite
> >
> >
> >
> > Plenty of absurd ideas go unrefuted, but Dan may be on to something.
> >
> >
> >
> > GB shows an ad from the Feb., 1946,_Boy's Life_ for _Along the Navajo
> >
> > Trail_, starring Roy Rogers, promising, "You'll go gay, you'll go wild,
> >
> > you'll go for this grand carnival of musical entertainment!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Further, from the _Saturday Review_ (snippet, allegedly 1931): "He
> > wondered=
> > ,
> >
> > vaguely, whether he was a little drunk. ... he felt, suddenly, very
> excited
> >
> > and gay, and a little mad. An absurd line of a song ran through his
> brain,
> >
> > 'I wanna go gay, I wanna go gay'...Only you couldn't go gay at a business
> >
> > luncheon."  (I can't tell the sexual context of these lines.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Coded messages? Believe what you will.  But if the song can be
> identified,
> >
> > the lyrics might provide a likely explanation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Back in the pre-cyber days, before GB would scan a million books for you
> in
> >
> > no time, no one I discussed the question with  admitted with "go gay" as
> > an=
> > y
> >
> > kind of idiom or ordinary collocation outside of its homosexual usage. As
> >
> > HDAS shows, "to "get gay" used to be pretty common in the sense of "get
> >
> > uppity," but that's different.
> >
> >
> >
> > The cowboy song "The Streets of Laredo" includes the line, "'Twas once in
> >
> > the saddle, I used to go dashing,/ 'Twas once in the saddle, I used to go
> >
> > gay."  But it's just as often "be gay."  Also, as it parallels "go
> > dashing,=
> > "
> >
> > it does not support the sense of "go" as "become." Coded message?
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course, this is all pretty moot for the history of the lexicon as long
> > a=
> > s
> >
> > the 1933 ex. in HDAS holds up. If not, Grant's line loses its likelihood
> as
> >
> > a sexual reference. I do not have access to the book cited in HDAS: _The
> >
> > Young and Evil_, by Charles Ford and Parker Tyler (Paris, 1933). I
> > consulte=
> > d
> >
> > it at the NYPL forty years ago.
> >
> >
> >
> > HDAS also cites, in brackets and with a disclaimer, Gertrude Stein's even
> >
> > less relevant use of "gay" in 1922, an ex. also hailed by enthusiasts as
> a
> >
> > magnificently trail-blazing dog-whistle message.
> >
> >
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com
> > <mailto=
> > :thegonch at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >
> > > -----------------------
> >
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> > ADS=
> > -L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
> >
> > > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM<mailto:
> > thegonch at GMAIL.CO=
> > M>>
> >
> > > Subject:      Re: early "gay" cite
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > ------
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cary Grant used the known phrase "gone gay", which meant to be
> >
> > > colorful and youthful and even a bit silly.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > That it might have also been dog-whistle language to the gay community
> >
> > > of the time is an interesting theory, unproven and unrefuted.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > DanG
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
George A. Thompson
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ.
Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.

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