Further Antedating of "African-American"

Mon Sep 26 19:28:32 UTC 2011

A further possible interpretation of 1822:

"African-American Colony" means a colony that is in some ways African and in
some ways American. That's marginally different from a colony of, for, or by
African Americans, or an "American African colony."

JL

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Further Antedating of "African-American"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> David, thank you for this.  I had learned some of
> it in passing this morning, but didn't take the time to eke it out.
>
> Especially interesting is your comment that the
> "returning" blacks "were called the Americans,
> the American Africans and the African Americans
> and some other variations fairly interchangeably,
> it seems."  That means, I think, that one cannot
> infer that "African-American" (even without the
> hyphen) meant simply "Americans in Africa",
> without regard to "race", as Jon has suggested.
>
> If your daughter's thesis has some quotations
> using "African American" (or American African!)
> to mean "persons of African descent" from 1820 to
> say 1835, they would no doubt be of interest.
>
> Joel
>
> At 9/26/2011 01:13 PM, David A. Daniel wrote:
> >My daughter did a thesis on the illegal diamond trade in Sierra Leone and
> >Liberia. This, of course, involved some history of the founding of
> Liberia,
> >its people etc. The Americans "returning" to Africa were called the
> >Americans, the American Africans and the African Americans and some other
> >variations fairly interchangeably, it seems. Returning is in quotes
> because,
> >of course, most of them weren’t returning at all, having never been there
> >before, and, through a racial sort of "lumping" Africa was assumed to be
> >monolithic. This resulted in people whose roots/ancestry originated in,
> say,
> >Kenya or elsewhere on the continent, being "returned" to Liberia. Sort of
> >like taking a boatload of Albanians and "returning" them to Denmark
> because
> >- what the hell - it's Europe. Also interesting to note that the returning
> >American Africans totally lorded their "civilized" culture over the locals
> >and regularly enslaved folks from local tribes. The two societies - true
> >natives and "Americans" - lived in conflict into modern times and
> apparently
> >(it's been some years and I forget the details) ultimately led to Samuel
> >Doe, a "true" native, taking control from the "Americans" in a coup in
> 1980.
> >So, the descendants of the American Africans were recognized as such and
> >called as such into modern times, never having fitted in with their
> new/old
> >home, including application of bad cultural habits they took along with
> >them.
> >DAD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >Subject:      Re: Further Antedating of "African-American"
>
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >---
> >
> >What I can't get my head around is this.
> >
> >If we were "Americans" in 1822, why will people still be suggesting
> >that we go _back_ to Africa in 2022?
> >
> >Or is it the case that, here, "American" in conjunction with "African"
> >means only "Africans randomly come to be in [the United States of]
> >America" and not "regarded as ordinary 'Americans' in the sense of
> >'peculiar to [the United States of] America' in some
> >socially-meaningful way."
> >
> >You know. Like "American Negro" or "American Jew," as opposed to, say,
> >"Chinese-American" or "Irish-American."
> >
> >That is, I don't believe for an instant that "African[-]American" in
> >1822 had anything like the meaning that people are trying to force
> >onto "African-American" today. Indeed, I wouldn't believe it even if
> >it could be documented that George Washington himself understood
> >"African-American" to have exactly the same sense as
> >"English-American."
> >
> >--
> >-Wilson
> >-----
> >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
> >to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >-Mark Twain
> >
> >
> > >
>
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >---
> > >
> > > Well, I still disagree.
> > >
> > > Fred wrote:
> > >>1832 _Edinburgh Encyclopedia_ XVII. 275 (Google Books) Â Since the
> > >>year 1822 the Americans have founded a colony at the mouth of the
> > >>river Mesavada, to the south of Sierra Leone. Â This colony has been
> > >>called Liberia, and the principal town Monrovia. Â The population
> > >>consists of African-Americans, and of free negroes.
> > >
> > > (The containing article is on Sierra Leone, and was written before
> > > the Republic of Liberia was declared.in 1847.)
> > >
> > > This clear association with Liberia and 1822 only reinforces, in my
> > > mind, that the 1822 and 1832 "African-American" have the same meaning
> > > -- Americans of African descent.
> > >
> > > Fred wrote:
> > >>My response to Joel is the following: Â Liberia was frequently
> > >>referred to as "the American colony." Â "African American colony"
> > >>meant the American colony in Africa. Â It is a collocation that only
> > >>coincidentally looks like the phrase "African-American" in its
> > >>familiar meaning.
> > >
> > > I don't think the collocation is "only coincidental", given the 1822
> > > and 1832 quotations. Â And if the meaning was "the American colony in
> > > Africa", wouldn't the 1822 article title have been "American African
> > > colony" in that order? Â (Or "American colony in Africa"?)
> > >
> > > At 9/25/2011 08:31 AM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
> > >>The best part here is that it shows the evolution from [African
> > >>[American colony]] to [African-American]--but, although this is a noun
> > >>and it's completely integral, the meaning is still "Americans in
> > >>Africa", not "Americans /from/ Africa".
> > >
> > > [Here Victor is referring to Fred's 1832 quotation.] Â This is the
> > > essence of the disagreement. Â I say that it is *Americans* who were
> > > *from Africa* -- either by birth or descendants of such -- that is
> > > meant by "African-American" in the 1822 quotation. Â There can be no
> > > question that it is *Americans*, "of color" and "free black", that
> > > emigrated -- they left from Charleston.
> > >
> > > And I see the same meaning, "Americans of African descent", in Fred's
> > > 1832 quotation (I assume he does too, since he provided it here as an
> > > antedating of the OED's 1855 quotation.) Â But if the 1822 quotations
> > > means "Americans in Africa", as Victor says, then isn't that also
> > > true of the 1832 quotation -- both don't qualify?
> > >
> > >>I am assuming, also, that "free
> > >>negroes" refers to the indigenous population.
> > >
> > > I frankly think the Edinburgh Encyclopedia description is off-base or
> > > loose: "The population consists of African-Americans, and of free
> > > negroes." Â In the 1822 quotation the "free negroes" have left
> > > America: Â "Several free persons of color, and one young black man,
> > > who had been implicated in the late plot at Charleston, sailed from
> > > that place ...". Â And "free negroes" at this time and in this context
> > > meant "freed", not "born free". Â Thus the "free negroes" are not
> > > indigenous to Liberia. Â And surely by "African-Americans" the
> > > Edinburgh Encyclopedia did not mean native Africans who were (now)
> > > living in an "American colony". Â (As I wrote earlier, Liberia was
> > > never an American dependency; the land was purchased for the American
> > > Colonization Society, a private organization, governed by the
> > > residents, and declared a republic in 1847.)
> > >
> > > Certainly loose is the wording "the Americans have founded a colony
> > > ...". Â This does not distinguish the American government (the U.S.)
> > > from a private enterprise. Â (While the 1822 article also does not
> > > explicitly distinguish government from private -- it says "the
> > > American colony on the African coast" -- I read that as "the colony
> > > of Americans".)
> > >
> > >
> > >>Of course, there is a
> > >>subtext that the "Americans" who ended up in Liberia are themselves
> > >>/from/ Africa,
> > >
> > > This of course is my argument (except for *sub*text). Â And "from"
> > > means "born in or descendants of persons born in".
> > >
> > >>so it may well be a moot point. However, the question
> > >>remains as to when the tag "African-American" stopped being applied to
> > >>someone who was physically in Africa.
> > >
> > > I doubt that it ever meant broadly "someone [American] who was
> > > physically in Africa". Â Surely such a label surely would not have
> > > been acceptable to/for a white American in Africa. Â It could only
> > > have been applied to someone "of African origin; a black American",
> > > as in the OED definition.
> > >
> > > Joel
> > >
> > >>Both types of finds are significant--and I don't want to discount
> Joel's
> > >>pair in the least--but the significance is rather different.
> > >>
> > >>VS-)
> > >>
> > >>On 9/25/2011 8:02 AM, Shapiro, Fred wrote:
> > >>>African-American (OED3 1855)
> > >>>
> > >>>1832 _Edinburgh Encyclopedia_ XVII. 275 (Google Books) Â Since the
> > >>>year 1822 the Americans have founded a colony at the mouth of the
> > >>>river Mesavada, to the south of Sierra Leone. Â This colony has been
> > >>>called Liberia, and the principal town Monrovia. Â The population
> > >>>consists of African-Americans, and of free negroes.
> > >>>
> > >>>NOTE: Â Although the 1832 dating appears to be accurate based on the
> > >>>digitized title page, one never knows with Google Books, so this
> > >>>would need to be verified in the print before being accepted.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Fred Shapiro
> > >>>Editor
> > >>>YALE BOOK OF QUOTATIONS (Yale University Press)
> > >
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