the birds and the bees

Wed Sep 28 17:33:04 UTC 2011

1899 _Michigan School Moderator_ (Oct. 19) 117: You know the story of the
birds and  bees carrying the fine yellow dust from one plant to another,
don't you? Well, I do not need them to work for me.

Not what you think. It's a magazine for schools, for God's sake.  A corn
plant _loq._ Jeez, you guys....

Otherwise, searches for "of the birds and [the] bees" find nothing of
interest.

JL

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: the birds and the bees
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The following obviously went to George but was meant for all:
>
> 1939 _Brainerd [Minn.] Daily Dispatch_ (Feb. 20) 4 [NewspaperArchive]: A
> Frenchman is born sophisticated. He knows about the birds and the bees.
>
> GB's exx. begin in 1942.
>
> Earlier exx.of "about the birds and the bees" refer to birds and bees. "The
> flowers" are often added."  The phrase originally referred to a frequent
> topic of sentimental nature poetry.
>
> So the figurative sense alludes, with a kind of cynical humor uncommon
> before the 1920s or '30s, to the "ways of nature" in general. It does not
> refer to the sex habits of actual birds and bees, a subject that, in this
> context, would be of less-than-optimum value to modern pubescents.
>
>
> PS: I suspect that the Nathan quote, found by Garson, may have
> significantly
> helped the idiom along, if isn't the actual origin.  _The Smart Set_ was a
> notable sophisticated mag of the period, and the humor behind "about the
> birds and the bees" is pretty sophisticated.
>
> Moreover, GB turns up 432 19th C. exx. of "the birds and the bees," proving
> that the collocation was already a cliche' by 1900.
>
> Relevant, from a forerunner of Dr. Spock. Emma Marwedel (1818-1893) was a
> pioneer in the U.S. kindergarten movement, so her book was presumably
> influential. Here's how an 1880s mom should introduce her widdu wun to the
> wonder of plants
>
>
> 1887 Emma Marwedel _Conscious Motherhood_ (Chicago: Interstate) 283:
> Another resemblance to the human family I will mention. All little children
> have papas and mammas, you know, and so have all flower babies. It is true,
> these vegetable parents usually resemble each other more exactly than human
> papas and mammas do, but sometimes they are even more different from each
> other in appearance than are your own dear papa and mamma. Sometimes,
> indeed, the flower papa lives on an entirely separate tree, or bush, from
> the flower mamma, as in the date-palm and others; but when he does, he is
> always sending her love messages and gifts by the birds and the bees.
>
> George Jean Nathan was born in 1882. Hmmm.......
>
> JL
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Garson O'Toole
> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: the birds and the bees
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Here is a 1922 citation that sardonically links "the birds, the bees
> > and the flowers" to learning about sex. Note, this instance of "The
> > Blue Lagoon" predates Brooke Shields.
> >
> > Cite: 1922 July, The Smart Set, Portrait of a Theatrical Season by
> > George Jean Nathan, Page 133, [Ess Ess Pub. Co.] Smart set Company,
> > New York. (Google Books full view)
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=0y0cAAAAIAAJ&q=bees#v=snippet&
> >
> > <Begin excerpt>
> > "The Blue Lagoon," by H. DeVere Stacpoole.--The boy and girl brought
> > up on the deserted island who learn the secrets of sex from the birds,
> > the bees and the flowers. In bed at 9:45.
> > <End excerpt>
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:04 PM, George Thompson
> > <george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > > Subject:      Re: the birds and the bees
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > This message got sent by accident, incomplete.
> > >
> > > JL has replied off-list with a citation from a newspaper of 1939.
> > >
> > > I had made an insincere effort to search the Proquest historical
> > newspapers
> > > -- it's not my idea of fun --but saw nothing likely within 50 years of
> > the
> > > introduction of the concept of pollination (through the 1920s).  JL's
> > > citation and another I had found but not noted, but from roughly the
> same
> > > era, suggest that the trope was well-known by then.
> > > My notion of this trope is that the little one is invited to remember
> > seeing
> > > mommy hen sitting on her eggs (or mommy robin, or mommy pigeon, if
> > > hen-houses are not part of the kid's experience), well, those eggs
> > > developed. . . .  And what got those eggs started? well, just as the
> > little
> > > bee flies to a flower and gathers up pollen. . . .
> > > So the bees wouldn't have entered the story before the late 19th C.
> > >  Colonial parents might have wised up their kids by referring to birds,
> > > though.
> > >
> > > The TLS article has a nice story about Noel Coward, who was with a
> child
> > > when they saw a pair of dogs copulating.  "What are they doing, Uncle
> > Noel?"
> > > (or words to that effect).  Coward explained that the dog in front was
> > blind
> > > and the other was pushing it to St. Dunstan's.
> > >
> > > GAT
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 10:37 AM, George Thompson <
> > george.thompson at nyu.edu
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>> -----------------------
> > >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >>> Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > >>> Subject:      the birds and the bees
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> There is a long essay/review in last week's (I think) TLS on an
> exhibit
> > at
> > >>> a
> > >>> London Museum on sexual behavior in man and in other animals.  In the
> > >>> course
> > >>> of the review, the writer alludes to "the birds and the bees" as the
> > >>> parental launching pad for enlightening a child about sex.  Oddly,
> the
> > >>> writer has the notion that the bees get into the story because of the
> > >>> sex-life of the swarm -- the single female queen pursued by the bunch
> > of
> > >>> hrny males, the drones and the worker bees, and so forth.
> > >>>
> > >>> I note that the expression is not in the OED.  It does appear from
> the
> > OED
> > >>> that knowledge of the process of pollination reached the
> > English-speaking
> > >>> world in 1873, which is liely to be the terminus
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> George A. Thompson
> > >>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> Northwestern
> > >>> Univ.
> > >>> Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > George A. Thompson
> > > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> > Univ.
> > > Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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