minimis, minimus = 'minimum,' 'minimal'

Thu Sep 29 01:15:55 UTC 2011

Conceivably Graham said "to the de minimus," or even "to de minimis," but it
still effectively meant "to the minimum."

That's not to say he can't use the phrase correctly in other contexts.

As for pronunciation, both Graham and Bloomberg used a shwa, or so it
sounded to me. Hence the spelling "minimus."  OED doesn't note the shwa even
as a US variation.

Also, the putatively (though not definitively) hasty identification of all
three as Republicans   (and only Rogers's party affiliation is open to
question) is justified by the opportunity presented to use "confudiation."

JL

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: minimis, minimus = 'minimum,' 'minimal'
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> FarLex has entries for both "de minimus" and "de minimis", with "de
> minimus" gathering a rather long list of synonyms, but "de minimis"
> getting a full definition. To make things more interesting, the
> definition is
>
> > Latin for "of minimum importance" or "trifling." Essentially it refers
> > to something or a difference that is so little, small, minuscule, or
> > tiny that the law does not refer to it and will not consider it. In a
> > million dollar deal, a $10 mistake is de minimis.
>
> That's fine, but that's not how it's interpreted by those who /don't
> know Latin/ when the read European statutes (or US statutes, for that
> matter). The usual interpretation is nearly the opposite--the smallest
> /non-trivial/ amount, i.e., a legal threshold.
>
>     VS-)
>
> On 9/28/2011 8:22 PM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
> > "De minimus" is a standard expression in European law and in
> > international law--not so much in the US (see exception below). Much
> > of the time it's a noun, although it originally was used as a
> > modifier--mostly "de minimus amount". Graham certainly has some
> > familiarity with international law and admiralty law, so he certainly
> > has exposure to the expression (he was a top Navy JAG lawyer).
> > Bloomberg's is the only usage that looks unusual to me. I find it
> > highly unlikely that there is any correlation with being Republican.
> > Besides, Bloomberg is a RINO if there ever was one. He switched
> > parties because he had a better chance to get through the primaries as
> > a Republican. Then, in his last term, he delisted himself from
> > Republican rolls and re-registered as an independent. He was never
> > much of a Democrat, but possibly even less of a Republican. You are
> > also assuming Rogers's party affiliation from his position--in fact, a
> > number of Duke Energy executives are Democrats, although the majority
> > are Republicans.
> >
> > You also might have misheard Graham. Here's the transcript:
> >
> > http://goo.gl/kvGOc
> >> Winning the war on terror to me is as follows.  Where there is will
> >> to fight and defeat extremism, it begins to obtain capacity, that
> >> when we withdraw, that the military forces left behind will be de
> >> minimus and that the people in the country in question will have the
> >> capacity militarily to defeat extremism:  When a politician embraces
> >> a moderate thought, they don't get killed; they win the election.
> >
> > But here's another Republican using "de minimus" (not in a way that
> > I've heard before)
> >
> > http://goo.gl/I80Fl
> >> Lindsey Graham voted "aye" on the Judiciary Committee and on the
> >> floor to replace David Souter with the "Wise Latina". Now, after a
> >> milder, but no less effective questioning exposing Elena Kagan's lack
> >> of qualifications for the U.S. Supreme Court, John McCain's protege
> >> will again vote "aye", so de minimus does Graham view the
> >> consequences of the election of conservative Republican senators.
> >
> > I found a tertiary source that identifies the following quote:
> >
> >> If they raised taxes on billionaires and millionaires, it adds a de
> >> minimus amount of money to the Treasury to pay off the debt
> >
> > The source claims the line came from NYT, but I have not been able to
> > find it in the NYT. No attribution--perhaps that's the Graham line you
> > heard.
> >
> > "De minimus" does show up in US tax law (specifically, in reference to
> > benefits--I found several comments that involved "de minimus" WRT
> > benefits topics). Hence:
> >
> > http://goo.gl/97BDP
> >> I've heard through the grapevine (which is not reliable) that it
> >> costs the IRS $100 to process a 5330 - therefore, many have suggested
> >> that the IRS would not go crazy trying to find these types of
> >> returns. I think this lost interest on participant contributions
> >> revolution (in the past 5 or 10 years, I mean) has definitely created
> >> the need for a de minimis tax threshhold, but no such luck yet.
> >
> > It's just the minimum legally required amount, so I don't see any
> > problems.
> >
> > VS-)
> >
> > On 9/28/2011 7:28 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>   Last week I heard Sen. Lindsey Graham of SC say that we had to reduce
> >> something to the "minimus." Just now I heard NYC Mayor Bloomberg tell
> CNN
> >> that "The fact is that the number of people crossing the border
> illegally is
> >> at the minimus number."
> >>
> >> Think it's just me? Think it's just plain "minimus"? CNN, Apr. 30
> >> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1104/30/cnnitm.01.html  :
> >>
> >> "JIM ROGERS, CEO, DUKE ENERGY: First of all, and most importantly, the
> >> national grid of the United States relies on just a de minimus amount of
> >> oil. So the movement in the oil price really doesn't affect the price of
> >> electricity very much."
> >>
> >> All three speakers are Republicans. Presumably, a confudiation of the
> legal
> >> "de minimis" is at the root of it all.
> >>
> >> JL
>
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