profiling

[Jonathan Lighter]

Thanks, counselor. Sounds like each side will have some 'splainin' to do
(as they say more and more on TV).

JL

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Baker, John <JBAKER at stradley.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Baker, John" <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
> Subject:      Re: profiling
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Specifically, prosecutors allege that Zimmerman said "these assholes, they
> always get away" and "these fucking punks."  The Affidavit of Probable
> Cause is available at various places on the Internet, including
> http://www.scoutmastersandbox.com/Zimmerman_Probable_Cause_Document.pdf.
>
> The Florida stand-your-ground law is at
> http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/Chapter0776/All.  News reports
> indicate that the state has the burden of proof to show that the defendant
> does not have a valid defense under the statute; I haven't confirmed that.
>  The statute states in part that a person is justified in the use of deadly
> force and does not have a duty to retreat if he or she reasonably believes
> that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm
> to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a
> forcible felony.  Fla. Stat. 776.012.  It's not clear to me how Zimmerman
> could possibly make that showing, when apparently Trayvon Martin was a much
> smaller unarmed kid, but we haven't heard Zimmerman's defense yet.
>
> The statute also says that the stand-your-ground defense is not available
> to a person who initially provokes the use of force against himself or
> herself, unless:
> (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or
> she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she
> has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the
> use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the
> assailant; or
> (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the
> assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to
> withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or
> resumes the use of force.  Fla. Stat. 776.041.  The Affidavit of Probable
> Cause alleges that Zimmerman "confronted" Martin, so prosecutors are
> probably going to argue that Zimmerman provoked the use of force.
>
> A complicating factor for Zimmerman:  Normally it's better if a defendant
> doesn't take the stand, because appearing as a witness allows the
> prosecution to introduce otherwise extraneous evidence to attack your
> honesty.  However, Zimmerman probably would have difficulty in asserting a
> self-defense claim if he does not testify.
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of Jonathan Lighter
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 4:57 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: profiling
>
> Since the law presumes Z innocent, won't the state have to prove to a jury
> that M *didn't* jump him from behind  and then, catching sight of the gun,
> *didn't* try to get it away from him, making him fear for his life?
>
> BTW, the state does not allege that Z used the
> materializing-dematerializing "racial epithet," but that he spoke instead
> of "these assholes" and "punks."
>
> JL
>
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: profiling
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > At 4/13/2012 03:36 PM, victor steinbok wrote:
> > >That's not the only bidirectional issue. Under Florida law, it is
> possible
> > >for both people in a confrontation of this sort to claim self-defense
> > under
> > >the Stand Your Ground statute, but only one of them would win the
> lottery.
> >
> > Do you win the lottery if you're the survivor in this duel in this OK
> > corral state, or do you win the lottery if you're the victim and go to
> > Heaven?
> >
> > Joel
> >
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>
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